A New Delta "Lite"???

[NYRANGERS]

This "deal" sounds like an opener for "jets for jobs" at Delta.

I don't think we are going to go that direction. U did it because they only have 70 jets allowed under their scope. As a Delta pilot (furloughed) I don't believe in jets for jobs. I don't think our negotiaters do either. If we start something new with a 100 seat jet or more, the flying will be done by Delta pilots. My2 cents

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Ranger,

Change that to 71 seats or more and I agree 100%

 

[surplus1]

If I knew all the answers I'd have Leo Mullins job and that isn't going to happen anytime soon. But, like everyone else, I have one of those opinions.

Replacint Delta Express with RJs may be a nice idea from the point of view of the people that fly RJs, but does it makes sense? I don't think so. Delta needs to compete with JBlue and AirTran and to some extent SWA. The CASM of a 732 with 119 seats is too high in the Delta structure when compared to the competition's CASM. Replacing the equipment with something that has an even higher CASM (RJs) won't cut it.

Delta has a higher cost structure, they need a bigger airplane for EXPRESS not a smaller one. A cattle car that can match the CASM of the competition on select routes. Look for the 757 in single class configuration to do this. It has enough extra seats to offset DAL's higher costs and match the competition on the low fares to Florida.

They will use more RJs, but in markets that generate higher fares that cover the high CASM of the Delta owned RJ. That's why they wanted CHQ to replace CMR in the FL market. That market is low yield and Chautauqua, on a fee for departure contract, is dirt cheap. That will work for now. Eventually, they'll do the same thing with CHQ that they did with TSA and BEX, dump it when the time is right and go with their own stuff..

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

WOOHOO!

Surplus and I agree!

I have said for years that low yeild markets (FLA) need big airplanes. I agree that many of the former express markets will get 757's.

On a related not, the MCO 737-200 base is officially dead. 200's will initially go to CVG and the crew base will be closed officially by the end of 03.

This from a memo from our vp of flight ops.

 

[surplus1]

Well, did I "luck out" or was that pure genius?

FDJ, you should listen to me more often. I know other cool stuff too.

Now when all those 732's get to CVG, do you think they will park them or fly them on the high density routes now flown by CMR? When they do replace the CMR flying, which is what I think will happen (so that CMR jets can attack AA and AAA routes), should we start complaining that you are "taking our jobs", or instead will you admit that this is how the business is supposed to work.

Hope the new plan succedes and you get back soon.

 

[NYRANGERS]

To my understanding, this will bring the -200's to CVG and use the Express pilots to fly them. This will have a virtual effect on Delta block hours (since Express hours don't count towards hours flown with regards to RJ percentages) as an increase. Thus allowing more RJ's, probably of the Chaquita Banana version.

Hope this means more jobs for all, but I don't think it is a two way street.

 

[tbkane]

Delta express counts toward mainline Delta block hours so no more jets unless mainline was to grow. Sorry.

Surplus 1 it is so good that for the first time I hope you perdiction come true it would help a rather dismal week in aviation. I do hope that at some point we get back to growth at both mainline and DCI.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Delta express counts toward mainline Delta block hours so no more jets unless mainline was to grow. Sorry.


You don't have to say sorry to me, if you are right, sounds good. I just somehow remember it that way. \

Funny how 10 months on furlough can scramble the mind.

NYRANGERS You+150

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Well, did I "luck out" or was that pure genius?




-----Don't know if it was luck or not, but any ideas which agree with mine are certainly "genius!"



FDJ, you should listen to me more often. I know other cool stuff too.



-----Well, Surplus, I have listened to you for wayyyy too long, and haven't heard too much "cool stuff," but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and keep listening!



Now when all those 732's get to CVG, do you think they will park them or fly them on the high density routes now flown by CMR?


----We'll see.


When they do replace the CMR flying, which is what I think will happen (so that CMR jets can attack AA and AAA routes), should we start complaining that you are "taking our jobs", or instead will you admit that this is how the business is supposed to work.



-----I don't know how many times I can say this, but I have no problems at all with how the business is supposed to work. I understand the value and purpose of rjs, and hope we continue to employ them. All I care about is the amount of my flying that Delta can outsource.

Many tell me that Delta could never make a profit with rjs on mainline. What is ironic is that many of those same people courageously struck for 89 days to bring CMR rj wages up to relative parity with mainline.




Hope the new plan succedes and you get back soon.

Thank you....I hope so too.

 

[csmith]

Well, did I "luck out" or was that pure genius?

FDJ, you should listen to me more often. I know other cool stuff too.

Now when all those 732's get to CVG, do you think they will park them or fly them on the high density routes now flown by CMR? When they do replace the CMR flying, which is what I think will happen (so that CMR jets can attack AA and AAA routes), should we start complaining that you are "taking our jobs", or instead will you admit that this is how the business is supposed to work.

Hope the new plan succedes and you get back soon.

I would hardly call it luck or pure genius. This has been the plan, 757s in MCO, for a while. The CVG 737 reintroduction has also been posted over on the ALPA national forum. I suspect that you have access to it. The 757s on Express had been sent out in a company memo. It wasn't really that hard to get one's hands on it. Take credit for genius if you must. The important thing is that we are actually developing a plan to deal with the low cost carriers. Of course, the Vegas base rumor is still pretty hot.........don't touch that dial.

CS

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

TK and Ranger,

The point is moot (I love saying "moot!").

Due to only 3 quarters of losses, we have given up our block hour percentage limits. Until we "meet and confer" (mgt must be shaking in their boots) to set new limits, Delta can (and is) grow DCI without restriction.

We showed an unbelievable lack of foresight to allow the most important part of our contract to be decimated by only 3 quarters of losses, particularly in light of the fact that we were losing money when we signed it. Unfortunately, we furloughees are paying the price.


P.S.
The three quarter of losses breaks down this way: 2 consecutive quarters (third and fourth) triggered the first reset. 2 more consecutive (fourth and first) triggered the second which led to the dreaded "meet and confer."

 

[tbkane]

Yes but with that all powerful union we have to represent us, do you really think they will trade the cow for a handful of beans?

I don't know what the meet and confer will have as an outcome, but the reset numbers allow all of DCI flying after a reset and 2004 to be at a max of 39%.

What is the current percentage only Leo really knows, but I have heard that they are approx 41% so the growth would stop until they find another end around.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

TK,

I give you credit. You have a lot more confidnece in the "meet and confer" clause than I do.

The way I see it, we have left ourselves with NO leverage. IMO, those who want to spend their careers at a regional should have confidence that their airlines will grow unabetted.

Those who hoped to eventually go to a mainline carrier might not find this news too encouraging.


I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why not try something that works?

The way I see it, we have left ourselves with NO leverage. IMO, those who want to spend their careers at a regional should have confidence that their airlines will grow unabetted.

When will you guys realize ALPA's Apartied strategy is a failure? Why not insist that your union bring together pilots performing Delta flying? Is it not the purpose of a union to bring together employees for collective bargaining?

Are Pan Am, Ransome, Northeast, or Western pilots taking your flying?

ALPA Apartied - One level of Discrimination

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: Why not try something that works?

When will you guys realize ALPA's Apartied strategy is a failure?




------Of course it has been a failure. We haven't ever enforced it! That's what I have been crying about. We needed strong scope years ago and blew it. We need strong scope now and don't have it. So we are in complete agreement we have failed. Our only disagreement lies in how to correct it.


Why not insist that your union bring together pilots performing Delta flying?


-------How? No one has ever convinced me that this is even close to a realistic proposal, and believe me, I have asked.


Is it not the purpose of a union to bring together employees for collective bargaining?



---------Partially. Add to that a greater purpose of encouraging the growth of high-paying jobs.



Are Pan Am, Ransome, Northeast, or Western pilots taking your flying?


-------If they are not on our list, than they very well might be.
P.S. The pilots to whom I think you are referring had contractual language (DAL's and theirs) which forced a list merger. You don't, a very crucial fact which you guys seem content to ignore.


ALPA Apartied - One level of Discrimination

Cute slogan. I don't know what it means, but it's cute.


You can have the last word. I really don't care to get involved in another rjdc argument. Besides, it's really not worth it. You won. Our scope has been practically eliminated. Grow away. The restrictions have been removed. Enjoy the rj (no disrepect intended, I just have a feeling it will be a while before any mainline hiring).

 

[CF34-3B1]

Not to spread rumors, but I spoke with a DAL crew today, they said a company memo came out today confirming the closing of the MCO 737200 base.

Any DAL guys able to confirm this?

 

[flx757]

On a related not, the MCO 737-200 base is officially dead. 200's will initially go to CVG and the crew base will be closed officially by the end of 03.

This from a memo from our vp of flight ops.

I believe this would be the confirmation you were looking for. It was posted just a few posts up on this thread.

 

[asarjfo]

This is about the third time I heard the rumor of the Vegas base. Is it for mainline or DCI?

I will start another rumor while I am here......no more 50 seaters for ASA next year.....all 70's. I have heard this one being tossed around quite a bit in the crew lounge too. And we all know that everything said in the crew lounge comes true!