A Minimum Fuel Scenario..what would You do?

[satpak77]

I would immediately put the props into feather and pull power to idle, however keep the engines running "in case you need them"

Keep the gear up at all times until landing flare, insuring max fuel at touchdown.

Was this one of the new SWA scenario questions? Wonder if you are part of the 60% who don't pass?

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

I've gotta agree with most of the posters here. Disregarding how we may have gotten ourselves into this fine mess in the first place, the job becomes getting the airplane onto a runway before running out of fuel. The assumption is that there is no suitable airport within range, therefore we are going to have to land at the airport in front of us. We just went missed, so we while we are in the process of getting back onto the approach for another go at it, we conserve fuel as much as possible. If we have time (we should) we notify the attendants of the problem (quickly and to the point) and alert them to the possibility of an accident. ATC should already be aware of the gravity of the situation and can be asked to notify company (they should be in the loop). They will take care of coordinating possible CFR. That whole process (notifying ATC) should take the crew all of 10 seconds, tops. Finally, fly the approach perfectly and LAND! You have no other option. If you don't see the runway at mins or 100' above TDZE, so what?! Continue on down until you see it or touchdown. As has been said already - go around is not an option at this point.

Again, how we managed to get ourselves into this fine mess is another story, but we're here, so now what? We land, that's what. That's the only option left, as I see it.

 

[urflyingme?!]

Answer.

Punch myself in the face for being such an effing moron for getting to this point.

alternate

Hope that the FBI doesn't correlate the 1 million of life insurance you bought from ALPA last week with your idiotic crash in farmer jons field.

 

[STINKER]

You shut down an engine are you stupid...? Maybe your not stupid but i bet youre still unemployed..This one time at band camp!

 

[D-Bo]

You are at minimum fuel, the nearest alternate is over 100 NM(which you certainly do NOT have enough fuel aboard to make it to)
You just went missed at a non-towered field because could not see anything at DH(or 100 abv TDZE),
wHAT DO YOU DO? Looking for some input in relation to what the 121 world would recommend?

...During an interview I stated I would shut down 1 engine to conserve, fuel declare an emergency, notify operations, FA's, ATC, And request emergency personel be prepared on the field?
Looking for some feedback. Thanks

I'm not trying to clown you but that was the funniest F'n thing I've heard all day. WOW! I haven't even read the subsequent replies but d**n! Good look on your next interview. Your answer to that question was wrong in at LEAST FIVE WAYS. I'd pay a lot of F'N money to see the interviewers face on that answer. I've had one airline interview in my life where I didn't get the job and the way I interviewed that day, I don't think my own Mom would have hired me. Good luck on your next one. I'm sure your intentions are good. If you didn't get the gig and get another interview, PM me. We'll talk. Seriously. If I can help you I will. Not just as it applies to an interview, but airmanship. I'm sure you can fly. We'll go over that thought process a little.

 

[D-Bo]

You are at minimum fuel, the nearest alternate is over 100 NM(which you certainly do NOT have enough fuel aboard to make it to)
You just went missed at a non-towered field because could not see anything at DH(or 100 abv TDZE),
wHAT DO YOU DO? Looking for some input in relation to what the 121 world would recommend?

...During an interview I stated I would shut down 1 engine to conserve, fuel declare an emergency, notify operations, FA's, ATC, And request emergency personel be prepared on the field?
Looking for some feedback. Thanks

I better tell you this in case we don't talk before your next interview. The situation is you're single engine. On approach and the one good engine you had now shows indications of a fire. It's all you got. DO NOT shut it down dude.

 

[aussiefly]

I'm sorry to say that we actually had an ATR Capt. shut down a perfectly good engine to descend through a cloud layer and then restart it once below the clouds because they had an prop anti-ice fault..

Just goes to show that you can't train for commonsense. Look at the poster who started this thread.....hes a freaken CFI for crying out loud and should know better.

 

[fried chickens]

If you're flying a crj just push the left eng. fire button and then push the right eng. fire button.

 

[VABB]

If you lose an engine at V1, pull the power back on the other engine before you rotate. This will decrease the yaw and make the airplane much easier to fly.

 

[Turtlesfly]

You can tell it's flame bait when somebody starts a thread and then totally walks away and doesnt' have the balls to return to the forum to defend himself. Maybe it's a herself.

 

[ohplease!]

You can tell it's flame bait when somebody starts a thread and then totally walks away and doesnt' have the balls to return to the forum to defend himself. Maybe it's a herself.

its been kinda fun and interesting though

 

[Bringupthebird]

How about putting down the life section of the USAToday when you are enroute to an IFR destination and check your alternate weather, along with a few others closer to the destination? If you don't have enough gas, land and get some gas.

I think I saw this same scenario on Jay Jay the Jet Plane , and that's how he handled it. Of course, his profane yelling at the dispatcher was edited out.

 

[whatfuelpolicy]

How about putting down the life section of the USAToday when you are enroute to an IFR destination and check your alternate weather, along with a few others closer to the destination? If you don't have enough gas, land and get some gas.

I think I saw this same scenario on Jay Jay the Jet Plane , and that's how he handled it. Of course, his profane yelling at the dispatcher was edited out.

There was no editing done. Jay Jay is always very nice to his Dispatchers. (sarcasm)

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

How about putting down the life section of the USAToday when you are enroute to an IFR destination and check your alternate weather, along with a few others closer to the destination? If you don't have enough gas, land and get some gas.

Hmmm... I dunno. How far into the crossword am I? I mean lets get out priorities staight here!

 

[Cptn2b]

I would like to thank this entire thread for making me feel good about myself today.

 

[CA1900]

Hmmm... I dunno. How far into the crossword am I? I mean lets get out priorities staight here!

"What's a 7-letter word for imbecile?"


"Schmuck?"



"Yeah, that fits....."

 

[rausda27]

From the same author of this thread...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=91396&referrerid=9113

 

[bailey3083]

So he has one left?

My question to him is how did you answer the drunk Capt question?

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

So he has one left?

My question to him is how did you answer the drunk Capt question?

Probably said he'd buy another round.

 

[FlySacto]

How about putting down the life section of the USAToday when you are enroute to an IFR destination and check your alternate weather, along with a few others closer to the destination? If you don't have enough gas, land and get some gas.

I think I saw this same scenario on Jay Jay the Jet Plane , and that's how he handled it. Of course, his profane yelling at the dispatcher was edited out.

Priceless!!!

 

[FlySacto]

From the same author of this thread...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=91396&referrerid=9113

What a relief! If he doesn't wind up in the cockpit of an airliner he'll be out there carrying a gun!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[GravityHater]

I think we should boil him in oil, tar and feather him, then hang him, as he is being shot by the execution squad!
Jeez you guys are hard on someone asking for some help, even if it is a "Doh!" type question!
Here's my take. He is not going to get out of aviation because of some dumb forum. We might as well help everyone here asking any questions (as long as they are not planning something illegal and unsafe); anything they learn from the rest of us geniuses is going to improve our world and his.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
First of all, I'd not have accepted a release that had any weather issues that might have the potential to paint me into a corner. If you are weight restricted because of fuel... Oh well, bump people/bags and put on the extra gas. An astute crew would be monitoring the weather in route and have a back-up plan in place before this aforementioned scenario even comes up. If you aren't heading to your alternate when you reach "BINGO" fuel (burn to alternate+ reserve) than you already are screwing up. NEVER let ATC or especially DISPATCHERS fly your airplane!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[vectorvictor]

Hello,
First of all, I'd not have accepted a release that had any weather issues that might have the potential to paint me into a corner. If you are weight restricted because of fuel... Oh well, bump people/bags and put on the extra gas. An astute crew would be monitoring the weather in route and have a back-up plan in place before this aforementioned scenario even comes up. If you aren't heading to your alternate when you reach "BINGO" fuel (burn to alternate+ reserve) than you already are screwing up. NEVER let ATC or especially DISPATCHERS fly your airplane!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

A wise man once told me that an airplane will more than likely fly over gross however it will most certainly not fly without gas. I always add extra fuel for me if the load permits and I have a concern. I usually don't even call dispatch and tell them. As long as the release is legal and the alternates are good the conservative viewpoint wins and if I want some gas and it costs a bit more at this airport..too bad. The rotorhead is right: bump people and bags and take some extra gas any time your spider sense tells you to. I've never had a dispatcher yell at me when I call and I'm holding with 30 minutes more fuel than they thought I had. Remember you can go anywhere listed on the release without exercising your emergency authority. The call to dispatch (especially on a bad day when all the planes he/she has in the air are all holding) is solely for system control and advice. I usually tell them when I am going to divert to my alternate unless they come up with a better plan.

 

[FlySacto]

I think we should boil him in oil, tar and feather him, then hang him, as he is being shot by the execution squad!
Jeez you guys are hard on someone asking for some help, even if it is a "Doh!" type question!
Here's my take. He is not going to get out of aviation because of some dumb forum. We might as well help everyone here asking any questions (as long as they are not planning something illegal and unsafe); anything they learn from the rest of us geniuses is going to improve our world and his.

Agreed. I actually feel for the guy! I also think he could have done some serious homework before getting painted into that corner. He's interviewing for an airline job and his training, education, and experience level is at a point where he thought that he was helping the situation by introducing yet another emergency to his situation. I know most of us bust our arses to get into this job and none of us know it all. Did anyone else come upon a recommendation to shut down a good engine to save fuel scenario anywhere in their training? He needs to hit the books and ask the questions before he goes and get's shot down at another interview. He's getting some feedback now for that turd of an answer. Being a group of sensitive, careing, loving, and giving pilots he's getting just a little whipping cream to put on top. I hope he keeps on and get's up to speed to make it in the future.

 

[Lear70]

If you ever make friends with your recruiter at your airline, take them out and buy them some frosty adult beverages, then pick their brain for "dumbest airline answers" from both pilot AND F/A's.

It'll have you rolling ALL NIGHT at some of the stuff people say during interviews. Things so crazy you know it has to be true...

Incidentally, this is the problem we have with why being a CFI is not a working path to the airlines these days. They learn absolutely ZERO Part 121 CRM skills unless they go and get interview prep.

How many CFI's run into this scenario in their real instructing world? How often do they even fly cross-country in HARD IFR? Not much. So they have to learn it somewhere... the answer is WHERE? Unless they get a job as a 135 pilot and actually HAVE to fly when the weather is crap and learn the associated skills, there's nowhere they can read up on it.

That's why the airlines LIKE the pilot mills... they teach them all the right answers, check all the right boxes, all without really developing any REAL judgment-making skills, but they sound good during the interview...

By the way, the initial question didn't have enough information. Your first job would have been to ask the interviewer a LOT more questions about your position. How did you get into this pickle - is this field your alternate? Where are you? Where is the CLOSEST controlled field with CFR? Do you have the fuel to make it ANYWHERE else that has at least equal or better weather (preferably legal) and that also has CFR in case you DO end up in the grass BY the runway trying to land?

Gotta figure out your options before you can make a command decision. Just not enough information to go on...

p.s. If you want to succeed in an airline interview and you have NO airline experience, you need to start studying. Start with Cheryl Cage's book on interview success, and add into it some other technical / scenario question books. I don't like to push AIR, Inc on people, but their Interview Survival seminar is a MUST if you haven't been formally trained on interview technique - I see hundreds of military personnel in there every time they give it.

If this isn't flame, then good luck to you.

 

[Flyin2low]

We can all save our airlines. Why fly around with 2, 3, 4 engines burning all that gas when we can shut'em down enroute?

 

[Thedude]

1- Push both throttle up to firewall power

2- Grip the yoke with both hands

3- Push above mention yoke as far forwrad as you can

4- Trim contol pressures out

5 - Adjust your seatbelt and shoulder harness for the impending sudden stop

6 - You now have the rest of your life to contemplate the situation you just got yourself into.

 

[viper548]

...During an interview I stated I would shut down 1 engine to conserve, fuel declare an emergency

Unless you're in a B-52, I'd have to say hell no

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

You are at minimum fuel, the nearest alternate is over 100 NM(which you certainly do NOT have enough fuel aboard to make it to)
You just went missed at a non-towered field because could not see anything at DH(or 100 abv TDZE),
wHAT DO YOU DO? Looking for some input in relation to what the 121 world would recommend?

Perhaps you didn't understand the question, min. fuel means you can not except any delay or a fuel emergency may result. Thus, you should be able to make it to your alternate with no problems plus have your 45 minute reserve. So what do you do? Call min. fuel and head for your alternate. Anything other than this means you have broken other regulations long before you got yourself in this situation.

Now, since this was really flamebait....you would come back around on the approach. You would have the PNF create waypoints on the GPS that border the airport boundary. When you get to DH, fly direct to boundary waypoints as fast as possible. You will be doing 360s around the airport. After about 3 of these you will have created enough of a vortex that you should be able to land under VMC. Option two, hit the hydraulic fluid crossfeed bypass. This will direct all of your hydraulic fluid to the engines creating combustion for a few extra precious seconds. Although this might create another kind of emergency, but you already seem to be into that kind of stuff. Third option when applicable would be to grab the pistol of which ever one of you are on the firearms training program and shoot the one of you in the head that got you in this situation.