A Merry And SAFE Floptions Christmas

[WabiSabi]

Nice one. But there we go with needless name calling. Anyways, my "stupid" arguments are just points that I bring up people here don't address directly. I have to say again that I don't condone illegal operations, but it's like the union-folks try extra hard to "make an airplane safe to fly" (e.g. look for write-ups) for the purpose of stalling the operation just to make your point, instead of just a genuine concern for safety. See how childish that is? No one has answered that point directly because as soon as there is a post from that skanza-b!tch, it must be nonsense be cause she doesn't support the union. Therefore you don't read and consider the content. You should be true to yourself...
And again, I was aware of the name calling deal, and its not hipocrisy. If I were caught doing that, I would acknowledge it out of self respect.

Not so fast.

A) Referring to your posts as stupid is not name calling. Your posts are, for the most part, stupid.

B) An airplane is either broken, or it isn't. Damn right one should try "extra hard" to find discrepancies.

C) If you're going to back pedal, at least give it a decent try. You were caught in your hypocrisy and no amount of back pedaling will change that.

D) If you have a problem with professional pilots helping each other with the intricacies of preflights, then you need to quit flying for a living and take a non safety sensitive line of work.

So, why do pro-unioners create and promote "how to break a FLOPS (airframe here)" posts? Anyone?

This thread did not have that title. The thread's title was "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet"

Your intentional and blatant misquote shows your pro management at all costs mentality. You sound like a couple of the lackeys on the mx row when you call with a discrepancy and they refer to it is the "pilots broke it". With your attitude, you should go fly a desk and leave the flying to professionals that actually believe in preflights.

The IBT does not condone illegitimate write ups. They have always emphasized; Do not do anything illegal for or against the company.

Yep, you're spineless. That isn't name-calling. It's an observation based on your conduct.

 

[skanza]

Not so fast.

A) Referring to your posts as stupid is not name calling. Your posts are, for the most part, stupid.

B) An airplane is either broken, or it isn't. Damn right one should try "extra hard" to find discrepancies.

C) If you're going to back pedal, at least give it a decent try. You were caught in your hypocrisy and no amount of back pedaling will change that.

D) If you have a problem with professional pilots helping each other with the intricacies of preflights, then you need to quit flying for a living and take a non safety sensitive line of work.



This thread did not have that title. The thread's title was "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet"

Your intentional and blatant misquote shows your pro management at all costs mentality. You sound like a couple of the lackeys on the mx row when you call with a discrepancy and they refer to it is the "pilots broke it". With your attitude, you should go fly a desk and leave the flying to professionals that actually believe in preflights.

The IBT does not condone illegitimate write ups. They have always emphasized; Do not do anything illegal for or against the company.

Yep, you're spineless. That isn't name-calling. It's an observation based on your conduct.

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

 

[WabiSabi]

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

Skanza, in the past, your professionalism has been in doubt. You are way beyond that now and your unprofessional attitude is certain so you should not fly any airplane for a living. You have clearly stated that you are anti preflight so now I doubt you're even fit to fly an airplane as a student or private pilot. You just don't get it.

Do yourself, your would be passengers and innocent bystanders a favor and exercise your right to voluntarily surrender your certificate.

 

[fischman]

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

So, what if they DO find an issue with one of those systems? Are they trying to ground the plane, or are they heros for possible saving a lives?

There is nothing wrong with doing a thorough preflight inspection, and I would have issue with any pilot who DOESN'T perform a detailed inspection.

Think about what you type before you type it. You are in a no-win situation with this arguement.

 

[skanza]

Well I guess I must clarify further: I also dont't have a problem with a thorough preflight because the proper operation of that machine is what my life depends on...we agree on that. What I'm saying is that these examples of preflight items are driven by the union trying to strong-arm managment into a deal by disrupting the operation. I keep saying that and no one responds directly.
Second, I am not trying to win an arguement, I'm just presenting this situation with another view. So if you want to argue, you're outta luck with me. Don't tell me you can't see the "hee-hee, this will show 'em" attitude behind these and other examples of how to ground these airplanes!!
Finally,
I think "hero" is an overstatement. You're saying that a life is in jeopardy if the EFBs are inop? How did they ever fly safely 20, 40 years ago without them?...
Wabi,
niether you nor I are in the position to judge another's professionalism. And frankly, it's only important to respect yourself in this reguard.

 

[fischman]

Well I guess I must clarify further: I also don't have a problem with a thorough preflight because the proper operation of that machine is what my life depends on...we agree on that. What I'm saying is that these examples of preflight items are driven by the union trying to strong-arm management into a deal by disrupting the operation. I keep saying that and no one responds directly.
Second, I am not trying to win an argument, I'm just presenting this situation with another view. So if you want to argue, you're outta luck with me. Don't tell me you can't see the "hee-hee, this will show 'em" attitude behind these and other examples of how to ground these airplanes!!
Finally,
I think "hero" is an overstatement. You're saying that a life is in jeopardy if the EFBs are inop? How did they ever fly safely 20, 40 years ago without them?...
Wabi,
neither you nor I are in the position to judge another's professionalism. And frankly, it's only important to respect yourself in this regard.

When the sh!t hits the fan, trust me you are either going to be a hero or a goat. So which one do you want to be?

Preflight the plane every time. Thoroughly.

Be a professional. Let me ask you a serious question. Who do you think is the better professional? One that finds a write-up and gets the mission done anyway, or the one who tells the owner there is going to be a 15 minute delay to get some important safety items addressed? Who do you think the owner appreciates more?

I'll tell you that I recently had a Mx issue that grounded the plane. Instead of going to the hotel, I was at the plane with the owner showing him the actual instrument that was malfunctioning, then showing him the MEL, then telling him WHY that grounded the plane. I then served him and his friends drinks until the recovery plane arrived.

Was he upset to be inconvenienced? Sure. Did he insist that we were the crew to take him to his destination? YES. Did I feel bad about grounding the plane for a "silly" write-up? NOT ONE BIT.

Be a professional. Be a man. Don't fly broken airplanes.

 

[dime line]

Well I guess I must clarify further: I also dont't have a problem with a thorough preflight because the proper operation of that machine is what my life depends on...we agree on that. What I'm saying is that these examples of preflight items are driven by the union trying to strong-arm managment into a deal by disrupting the operation. I keep saying that and no one responds directly.
Second, I am not trying to win an arguement, I'm just presenting this situation with another view. So if you want to argue, you're outta luck with me. Don't tell me you can't see the "hee-hee, this will show 'em" attitude behind these and other examples of how to ground these airplanes!!
Finally,

I think "hero" is an overstatement. You're saying that a life is in jeopardy if the EFBs are inop? How did they ever fly safely 20, 40 years ago without them?...

Wabi,
niether you nor I are in the position to judge another's professionalism. And frankly, it's only important to respect yourself in this reguard.

You are right the plane will not crash, but if a divert in flight needed to happen, and you were down to oney Fujitsu, and it craped, well now your now in a predicament. Your right 20,30,40 years ago, we had paper charts, welcome to the new age.

Ever had a Fujitsu crap? I have
Ever had the other Fujitsu crap? I have

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Again, guys, you really need to be aware of examples you use and shield yourselves from the data mining that results from seemingly innocuous anecdotes.

 

[Galaxy]

Again, guys, you really need to be aware of examples you use and shield yourselves from the data mining that results from seemingly innocuous anecdotes.

Huh? I don't see it?

 

[dime line]

Again, guys, you really need to be aware of examples you use and shield yourselves from the data mining that results from seemingly innocuous anecdotes.

uh huh