A Merry And SAFE Floptions Christmas

[Frac Cap]

I don't have any reliable source for the info. Just third hand info from someone who claims to be in the "know". It is just my personal belief that if HIG and Flops wants to signal a fresh start and show good will, a pay raise has to happen by the first of the year. Any other time would not make sense and it would show a sign of weakness due to union pressure having a negative impact to the company that they were trying to change. Additionally, I feel it would be extremely difficult to get quality pilots to take a job here for the lowest pay in the industry. If they don't stop the attrition, our training costs will go through the roof, and operationally we are going to suffer due to lack of crews. Just last week when the seniority list was updated, we lost 7 guys in 1 week. Stopping the attrition is going to have a tremendous affect on the bottom line, and a pay raise can easily help change this. Not acting on this potentially costly problem when it is in their power to do so, would in my opinion be operational negligence.

If a pay raise doesn't happen, it is just my feeling that HIG and Flops missed an opportunity for a fresh start and a chance to change our tarnished image and to get cooperation back due to new HIG ownership and no history of bad blood and broken promises.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[jetwash]

I can't see how they can come out now and give us a raise. Didn't BT use the excuse of negotiations as the reason they couldn't give us the supposed raise after the union vote.

I think it is just CGF BS.

Don't get me wrong, I would gladly accept any increase in pay that I should have been getting years ago.

 

[Frac Cap]

I'm not a labor law expert, but I thought only the time from the announcement of the vote and the completion of the vote any company is prohibited in increasing pay during that "laboratory period". Because a increase in pay can affect the votes. After that period I was under the assumption they could increase or decrease the pay an benefits providing there is "operational necessity". In other words, the company would be harmed in the marketplace if they didn't make the required changes. I think one can easily make a case we will be harmed in the market place trying to find, train and replace all our pilots that are leaving.

It is entirely possible the person that I hear the rumor from "a person in the know" could also be the same person that started the rumor that Swift was going to buy us. Who knows, but it kind of made sense. The fact is, I will believe it when my check says it.

 

[skanza]

non-management

Bull$hit. That's just a lame attempt at mitigating the fact that you were caught in your hypocrisy.

As for the spineless coward part; It is one thing if you're on the side of FLOPS management and take a stand. All of your posts are consistently gimpy and you make stupid arguments. I don't believe that you're part of a management effort to stake a presence of voice on this forum......if so, they should fire you because of your points have zero efficacy. Even though you have been proven wrong on a regular basis, you have repeatedly posted in favor of gross violations of FAR's. Your posts consistently suggest that you're just a simpleton ass kisser that refuses to take a stand for what is just. Hence, spineless coward.

Be true to your profession or get out.

Nice one. But there we go with needless name calling. Anyways, my "stupid" arguments are just points that I bring up people here don't address directly. I have to say again that I don't condone illegal operations, but it's like the union-folks try extra hard to "make an airplane safe to fly" (e.g. look for write-ups) for the purpose of stalling the operation just to make your point, instead of just a genuine concern for safety. See how childish that is? No one has answered that point directly because as soon as there is a post from that skanza-b!tch, it must be nonsense be cause she doesn't support the union. Therefore you don't read and consider the content. You should be true to yourself...
And again, I was aware of the name calling deal, and its not hipocrisy. If I were caught doing that, I would acknowledge it out of self respect.

So, why do pro-unioners create and promote "how to break a FLOPS (airframe here)" posts? Anyone?

 

[skanza]

Better yet, you ought to hope I don't find out who you really are.quote]

A threat? That's fine, then I'll know who you are. PM me.

I am also burdened with worries such as not being able to afford dental insurance next year, or how to pay my kids school lunches.

Maybe you should modify your living standards to match a pilot's salary. Just a suggestion. Remember, just because you fly rich people around, doesn't mean you are entilted to live like them. We're all bus drivers, just different size and speed busses.

Thats right let management and fools like you right burn it to the freekin ground, but wait there are so many people other than my greedy self that will lose their jobs too.

I'm sorry you have that "If I can't have it, no one can!" attitude. But it's pretty low to actively harm people you don't even know because of your problem. Were those other offers more money?, if so that would have been great for you-you get more money, FLOPS people=unharmed. Good luck.

 

[dime line]

Maybe you should modify your living standards to match a pilot's salary. Just a suggestion. Remember, just because you fly rich people around, doesn't mean you are entilted to live like them. We're all bus drivers, just different size and speed busses.

You can't be a pilot. You have to be management (or F&H). Ya have to be

 

[fischman]

I have to say again that I don't condone illegal operations, but it's like the union-folks try extra hard to "make an airplane safe to fly" (e.g. look for write-ups)

This statement is a contradiction.

Every pilot of every aircraft should be looking "extra hard" for write ups. If you are not doing so, you are a danger to yourself and your crew. Shame on you for not trying your hardest.

I applaud the "union folks" in doing so, and encourage you to do the same. I wonder if the FAA feels the same way I do?

I suggest you rethink your stance on this.

 

[Frac Cap]

Better yet, you ought to hope I don't find out who you really are.quote]

A threat? That's fine, then I'll know who you are. PM me..

Please, can't we all just play nice. We are all in this thing together, well I at least most of us I think. We all have different point of views, and each should be respected, even if some are out in left field as a minority. It is a point of view, and should be debated and discussed maturely. When we get angry and start threatening each other, our point of view and message looses credibility as a mature debate.

Just my 1 cent (I still work at Flops, can't afford 2).

 

[skanza]

Please, can't we all just play nice. We are all in this thing together, well I at least most of us I think. We all have different point of views, and each should be respected, even if some are out in left field as a minority. It is a point of view, and should be debated and discussed maturely. When we get angry and start threatening each other, our point of view and message looses credibility as a mature debate.

Just my 1 cent (I still work at Flops, can't afford 2).

Very well put! I agree totally and hope that discussions do stay mature and open-minded to what others have to say. Thank you, sir (or 'mam).

 

[Frac Cap]

I am glad to help, and pleased you are receptive to an open minded forum. Thank YOU sir or madam.

Happy Holidays to everyone......and yes even to management. (it is the time for forgiveness, and miracles, ......so how about that pay raise?)

 

[WabiSabi]

Nice one. But there we go with needless name calling. Anyways, my "stupid" arguments are just points that I bring up people here don't address directly. I have to say again that I don't condone illegal operations, but it's like the union-folks try extra hard to "make an airplane safe to fly" (e.g. look for write-ups) for the purpose of stalling the operation just to make your point, instead of just a genuine concern for safety. See how childish that is? No one has answered that point directly because as soon as there is a post from that skanza-b!tch, it must be nonsense be cause she doesn't support the union. Therefore you don't read and consider the content. You should be true to yourself...
And again, I was aware of the name calling deal, and its not hipocrisy. If I were caught doing that, I would acknowledge it out of self respect.

Not so fast.

A) Referring to your posts as stupid is not name calling. Your posts are, for the most part, stupid.

B) An airplane is either broken, or it isn't. Damn right one should try "extra hard" to find discrepancies.

C) If you're going to back pedal, at least give it a decent try. You were caught in your hypocrisy and no amount of back pedaling will change that.

D) If you have a problem with professional pilots helping each other with the intricacies of preflights, then you need to quit flying for a living and take a non safety sensitive line of work.

So, why do pro-unioners create and promote "how to break a FLOPS (airframe here)" posts? Anyone?

This thread did not have that title. The thread's title was "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet"

Your intentional and blatant misquote shows your pro management at all costs mentality. You sound like a couple of the lackeys on the mx row when you call with a discrepancy and they refer to it is the "pilots broke it". With your attitude, you should go fly a desk and leave the flying to professionals that actually believe in preflights.

The IBT does not condone illegitimate write ups. They have always emphasized; Do not do anything illegal for or against the company.

Yep, you're spineless. That isn't name-calling. It's an observation based on your conduct.

 

[skanza]

Not so fast.

A) Referring to your posts as stupid is not name calling. Your posts are, for the most part, stupid.

B) An airplane is either broken, or it isn't. Damn right one should try "extra hard" to find discrepancies.

C) If you're going to back pedal, at least give it a decent try. You were caught in your hypocrisy and no amount of back pedaling will change that.

D) If you have a problem with professional pilots helping each other with the intricacies of preflights, then you need to quit flying for a living and take a non safety sensitive line of work.



This thread did not have that title. The thread's title was "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet"

Your intentional and blatant misquote shows your pro management at all costs mentality. You sound like a couple of the lackeys on the mx row when you call with a discrepancy and they refer to it is the "pilots broke it". With your attitude, you should go fly a desk and leave the flying to professionals that actually believe in preflights.

The IBT does not condone illegitimate write ups. They have always emphasized; Do not do anything illegal for or against the company.

Yep, you're spineless. That isn't name-calling. It's an observation based on your conduct.

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

 

[WabiSabi]

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

Skanza, in the past, your professionalism has been in doubt. You are way beyond that now and your unprofessional attitude is certain so you should not fly any airplane for a living. You have clearly stated that you are anti preflight so now I doubt you're even fit to fly an airplane as a student or private pilot. You just don't get it.

Do yourself, your would be passengers and innocent bystanders a favor and exercise your right to voluntarily surrender your certificate.

 

[fischman]

I guess I need to clairify:
The thread was called "How to preflight a FLOPS Beechjet", but anyone with any sense of the situation can read it as "how to ground a FLOPs Beechjet". Examples from the thread:
power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedastal) needs to be intact and not worn or the airplane is down.

hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)

missing rings/washers on the air stairs.

push engine fire switches to see if the respective h/v and f/v valves close and check to see if the fire bottles go into arm mode (this isn't on the checklist (be careful to not blow the bottles!))

don't let them MEL both EFB's under the guise that you can have charts faxed as GOM, SOP's etc are required to be on board

And one guy even admitted to trying to ground the airplane here:

Oh yeah, and make sure to do the ENTIRE anti-ice check prior to takeoff (assuming you haven't grounded it yet) as we're getting into icing season. . .

a.k.a. h-stb fail season

Now come on, these are not just "helpful hints for safety", they are blatent attempts to disrupt the operation in the name of the union . How could this be interpreted otherwise? Once again, if you try to make your point like this too much and end up closing the place, there will be nothing left to negotiate...

So, what if they DO find an issue with one of those systems? Are they trying to ground the plane, or are they heros for possible saving a lives?

There is nothing wrong with doing a thorough preflight inspection, and I would have issue with any pilot who DOESN'T perform a detailed inspection.

Think about what you type before you type it. You are in a no-win situation with this arguement.

 

[skanza]

Well I guess I must clarify further: I also dont't have a problem with a thorough preflight because the proper operation of that machine is what my life depends on...we agree on that. What I'm saying is that these examples of preflight items are driven by the union trying to strong-arm managment into a deal by disrupting the operation. I keep saying that and no one responds directly.
Second, I am not trying to win an arguement, I'm just presenting this situation with another view. So if you want to argue, you're outta luck with me. Don't tell me you can't see the "hee-hee, this will show 'em" attitude behind these and other examples of how to ground these airplanes!!
Finally,
I think "hero" is an overstatement. You're saying that a life is in jeopardy if the EFBs are inop? How did they ever fly safely 20, 40 years ago without them?...
Wabi,
niether you nor I are in the position to judge another's professionalism. And frankly, it's only important to respect yourself in this reguard.