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A good review of the TA

waterskier

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Summary of ALPA Concessions from current ASA Contract 2007
[FONT=&quot]Section 1 Scope [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The no furlough clause is removed [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no requirement for SkyWest to deliver aircraft to XJT [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Voting YES on this TA will not protect your job. It removes any protections we currently have...which could expedite the transfer of aircraft. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 3 Compensation [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No Raises on the CRJ 200 until July of 2015 and are equal to a 1% pay increase [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Raises do not exist on the CRJ 700 unless 10 700s are NOT added each year. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If 700s are added there is no raise for the duration of the agreement [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Duty Credit 2-1 only applies to CDOs - NOT regular trips [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Min-day 3.86 has not changed [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Loss of duty rigs and failing to increase min day credits, in combination with the new part 117 rules, will be increasing our duty days with no pay protections. You may find yourself with a lot of airport sits, resulting in 12-14 hour duty days for very little credit. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pay for block starts when aircraft first moves and stop when aircraft comes to rest at the next point of landing [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How much time have you spent waiting for rampers to show up and push you or the times you have called for a push, but told to stand by due to ramp congestion. Think about ORD or JFK. A lot of unpaid time in the aircraft! [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]***Current Skywest min-day 4 hours and pay rate 3% higher than ASA TA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ALPA and Instructors have a min-day of 6 hours. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why is a 5 hour min-day (industry standard) too much to ask for our pilots [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 4 Minimum Guarantee [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This section is somewhat misleading it claims 75 hour MMG but Section 25 Scheduling has lower MMGs based on how one bids with his PCT and Vacation low and which pilot group you are from. The average pilot will lose nearly 2 months pay with the current flight schedules and loss of MMG. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 5 Traveling Expenses [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Loss of Downtown Hotels ? Co can substitute reasonable alternatives [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ALPA loss of control in selecting hotels [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 6 Moving Expenses [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Loss of option for 1 time payout of $750 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] You must prove you actually moved your residence and provide receipts with a cap on Co reimbursement. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 7 Vacation [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Loss of equal distribution of vacation weeks [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]***Weeks of vacation can be reduced over the summer and holidays so that more pilots will have to work during peak times. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 8 Deadhead [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Loss of pay for taking alternate deadhead [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] No guarantee you will be granted it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 9 Leaves [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ALPA leave at 6 hours day credit NOT cut [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Up to 20 pilots that can be on leave. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] No requirement for them to fly even when reserves are maxed out or Jr Manning and Extensions are occurring. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ALPA is hiding how much the Co will give ALPA for flight pay loss through crafty language. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 12 Hours of Service [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Can work up to 4am on an off day without getting min day or being considered losing an off day. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Current rest requirements were deleted to allow the Part 117 rules to govern. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The problem is that if the rules are relaxed (which the regional industry is fighting hard to do) we will only have FAR limits. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If the company develops a Fatigue Management Program, they can receive a lot of relief to the 117 regs. Without firm language, we have no protection and potentially lose 117 rest requirements. We know from pastexperience how much the company will exploit every loophole they can find. A contract without FIRM language is dangerous. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 14 Sick Leave [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] You may be may have to produce a Doctor note ?describing the illness or injury? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 25 Scheduling [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ASA FLIGHTLINE PBS subject to being terminated in this agreement by system wide pilot vote! [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]No requirement for the Company to accept ALPA's input on Pairing Construction [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] No firm numbers on the ?mix? of pairings. Can you say ALL 4-day trips? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Virtual credit values lower for higher TLV setting ? will result in less days off and harder to reach the window resulting in reserve for otherwise line holders who take leave. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Schedules no longer required to be published on the 20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th [/FONT][FONT=&quot]if it is a weekend or holiday! Many pilots work the weekends and holidays, why can?t the Co and ALPA? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Bidding time line not consistent ? meaning one month the bid window may be the 9[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th [/FONT][FONT=&quot]? 11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th [/FONT][FONT=&quot]or 12-14[/FONT][FONT=&quot]th[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. There also is NOT a requirement for the line bidding window to be 4 days wide. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] If you set your PCT below 75 in any month you will only be paid the value of your line NOT 75 hours MMG. [/FONT]
 [FONT=&quot]If the Co chooses they can ignore your PCT and make you accept the Co TLV. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The window has been reduced to 15 or 20 hours from the current 30 hours. This will result in pilots being more closely aligned to whatever average schedule value the Co desires. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This means you will have no control over how much you fly. You will be forced down to 75 hours in the winter and 100+ in the summer. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] If you set your PCT lower than 75, which most will have to do, you must accept the line value it gives you. That?s 4 months out of the year that you will have to settle for less than 75 hour MMG. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The Vacation Low MMG is 65 hours. With decreased duty credit and over all lower trip values due to FTDT it will be hard for most to reach 65 hour without having 3 ? 4 day trips. Only the very senior will be able to turn 1 week vacation into 2 weeks off. * XJT line bid for 2 additional years (with trip drops) and SkyWest, 75 hour MMG for vacation months! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Untstacking can and will go higher than 50% in any month ?such request will not be unreasonably denied? many more senior pilots will be flying holidays instead of the left over time being put into open time. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Unstacks can be up to 6 days [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Dropped the requirement to have expedited arbitration with PBS disputes ? essentially the Co can violate the CBA over and over and drag out any grievance for years while they continue to violate the terms of the agreement. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Any Captain can be required to fly as an FO including Extending and Jr Assignment. Additional Checkride items? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Reserve pilots can have trips taken from them by line holders. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Overall in this section the language is weak one liners with very few examples. The Company will have a field day making up the rules as they go, due to the failure to tightly describe what is permitted and what is allowed. [/FONT]
 

waterskier

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[FONT=&quot]Reserve Pilots: [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Any Captain can be required to fly as an FO. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]After finishing a trip as a captain, you could then be assigned a trip as an FO. You will not be released until you have timed out! [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The company can change your Reserve period. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Reduced GDOs. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Could have as few as 3 GDO a month. Almost every off day can/will be moved by crew scheduling[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] No input on replacement days (RDO). Scheduling's choice. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Many restrictions preventing a reserve pilot from making over 75 hours. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Crew Scheduling can use almost any airline or airport employee as a means of contacting you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Still fewer off days than every other pilot [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 28 Insurance [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Rates going up and XJT pays less than us in premiums– phased out over the agreement [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Huge reductions in Long Term Disability (LTD). Disability that prevents you from flying will only be covered for 3 years. 120 Days before it starts! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think about all the things that can happen that would cause you to lose your ability to fly. Car accident, cancer, diabetes, heart attack? Anything! Think about how quick something like this could force you and your family into bankruptcy. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 28 Retirement [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] XJT gets to keep their higher B plan contributions which are slowly phased out. You will be in the cockpit with a pilot getting more of a retirement contribution than you! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Duration [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 years! No early opener …..Why? Why not 3 years? [/FONT]
 

waterskier

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Why would anyone vote for this?
Even if the co. worst predictions come true, do any of you plan to be here long enough to really feel the supposed pain? Not me, if not at a major by then, will be in a different industry. Keep what we have now, for as long as possible, or until they offer us something reasonable. What worries me is that alpa does not want a fight, (& the contract is good to them) so they will sell the most gullible amongst us to vote for this POS... get the word out brothers... especially to the ones who do not read the boards... those are the people that will make the difference.
 

Mickey Mouse

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That's a good review. You should send a bill to ALPA for doing their work for them.
 

waterskier

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Wish I could take the credit for the review, I got it in an email from a friend, and though it should be shared.
Please forward the info as you think it will help to vote this down.
 

Freebrd

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Vote NO and keep our current contract at LASA which is far better than this TA POS. For the most part appears that LXJT is keeping what they have. And this is a joint contract? Newie has to go! Can't believe EF agreed to this either.
 

Nevets

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Vote NO and keep our current contract at LASA which is far better than this TA POS. For the most part appears that LXJT is keeping what they have. And this is a joint contract? Newie has to go! Can't believe EF agreed to this either.


Ha! This is more of a concession to LXJT than it is to LASA!
 

Freebrd

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Nev I wasn't trying to imply LXJT wasn't taking concessions, just didn't know to the extent I guess. So, we're both taking it in the shorts then, we agree on that. Vote NO and we keep what we have, at least for a few years or until a reasonable TA is presented to us by our ALPA reps. At least wait until next year when the rules are in place and we see how that all works out before we agree to a TA.
 

enuffalready

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Even if you don't consider it at all. This is a HUGE concession for LXJT compared to LASA.

ok ok.. enough of the whose concessions are bigger... good lord. Anyone ever tell you that when someone agrees with you, then stop selling? Like arguing whose wife is fatter or more b!tchy.... answer.. they are both fat and both b!tches
 

The Truth!

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Newie needs to go...lol You think. I heard he spoke up at the DFW roadshow and one pilot leaned over to another and said who the hell is this guy? He never flies the line and supposedly won't do anything Lee Moak doesn't want him to do. I had recurrent, you should have heard Sterling speaking completely from fear, this guy doesn't have a clue what's going on he just rambles on about how we are all doomed if this fails. They don't even have a plan if the fails, they said they think the word will get around that this has to pass. They stated that after the road shows they felt confident that everyone would see it their way. Do they even listen to what the line pilots have to say or is it just their way or no way at all? Later I learned that the FO rep from IAD Jason Jarvei (sp) supposedly gets 6 hours pay a day to stay at home and build trips. HUH This guy voted to keep himself at 6 hours and cut the line pilots MMG. Does anyone in ALPA have any ethics? Do they have a clue who they work for?
 

Mickey Mouse

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Newie needs to go...lol You think. I heard he spoke up at the DFW roadshow and one pilot leaned over to another and said who the hell is this guy? He never flies the line and supposedly won't do anything Lee Moak doesn't want him to do. I had recurrent, you should have heard Sterling speaking completely from fear, this guy doesn't have a clue what's going on he just rambles on about how we are all doomed if this fails. They don't even have a plan if the fails, they said they think the word will get around that this has to pass. They stated that after the road shows they felt confident that everyone would see it their way. Do they even listen to what the line pilots have to say or is it just their way or no way at all? Later I learned that the FO rep from IAD Jason Jarvei (sp) supposedly gets 6 hours pay a day to stay at home and build trips. HUH This guy voted to keep himself at 6 hours and cut the line pilots MMG. Does anyone in ALPA have any ethics? Do they have a clue who they work for?

Fear campaigns work. These guys (ALPA) do this for a living. Line pilots are just regular dudes trying to feed their families and build a career. They are easy prey. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I feel bad for the reserve guys. They are gonna get murdered on this.
 

Clutch

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Newie needs to go...lol You think. I heard he spoke up at the DFW roadshow and one pilot leaned over to another and said who the hell is this guy? He never flies the line and supposedly won't do anything Lee Moak doesn't want him to do. I had recurrent, you should have heard Sterling speaking completely from fear, this guy doesn't have a clue what's going on he just rambles on about how we are all doomed if this fails. They don't even have a plan if the fails, they said they think the word will get around that this has to pass. They stated that after the road shows they felt confident that everyone would see it their way. Do they even listen to what the line pilots have to say or is it just their way or no way at all? Later I learned that the FO rep from IAD Jason Jarvei (sp) supposedly gets 6 hours pay a day to stay at home and build trips. HUH This guy voted to keep himself at 6 hours and cut the line pilots MMG. Does anyone in ALPA have any ethics? Do they have a clue who they work for?

How bout that Chris Mankmyer...he's a real sociopath, huh?!
 

Mickey Mouse

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How bout that Chris Mankmyer...he's a real sociopath, huh?!

I love it. I never understood why he was removed. He was always a straight shooter. Very clear explanations and reasonable strategic vision. During the time when he was removed, they said it was because he wouldn't play ball with anyone; particularly management. He's looking pretty good right now.
 

COOPERVANE

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I love it. I never understood why he was removed. He was always a straight shooter. Very clear explanations and reasonable strategic vision. During the time when he was removed, they said it was because he wouldn't play ball with anyone; particularly management. He's looking pretty good right now.

He's coming out smelling like a rose.

I admit, back in the day I didn't like Chris. I still think he participated in the croneyism just like everybody else.

But when i REALLY thought about it, the reason I didn't like Chris was because he said stuff I didn't want to hear but it was the truth. He doesnt sugarcoat and he is a little ruff around the edges, but I think he speaks the truth.

Our other reps are spineless little weasels desperate to keep their little kingdom intact.

Just REALLY disappointing in Ed though..... I really thought he had our back and best interests at heart. It just proves that this system CORRUPTS MOST EVERYBODY elected into it.

JUST LIKE CHIEF PILOTS. Who has been glad to hear about a line guy promoted to chief who then becomes a tyrant?
 

Clutch

Hi, I'm William Devane
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Ed The Head Fortaw. He and his giant noggin are in it for Ed and Ed alone. He probably wrote the new reserve rules himself.
 
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