9E,XJ,9L TA Rates

[WayBack]

As someone earlier said, pay is black and white. If you read the TA summary there are a number of words like "timely" and "subject to" and "best effort". That is not black and white. Oh, and I see the dual-qual has quietly been slipped in there too.

This is the truth. Work rules aren't even worth the paper they're written on.
Pay is ALWAYS the meat and potatoes of the contract.

Ah ha! Now I can prove that at least one other person hasn't had any kool-aid this week.

Plus, how long will it be till the next contract is signed? You screwballs are going to have $25k/yr FOs in 2020? I'm not a Beck fan and I don't own gold (mostly cuz im poor) but you people need to realize that in 2015, 2020 -- 25k/yr will EASILY be poverty wages.

Thank you! Buy this man a beer! Oh, wait. Looking at your new pay rates you guys won't be able to afford the beer.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

This is the truth. Work rules aren't even worth the paper they're written on.
Pay is ALWAYS the meat and potatoes of the contract.



Thank you! Buy this man a beer! Oh, wait. Looking at your new pay rates you guys won't be able to afford the beer.

I would LOVE to have all pay increases tied to the CPI. No company will go for it because they can't budget for that years down the road... If any of you have an idea how to get that please let me know.
And yes I would be willing to take a pay CUT IF the CPI were negative (IE deflation)

 

[Jar Jar]

Can't budget for it??

Bull********************! If inflation goes nuts the airlines can and will raise their fares as much as necessary to remain in business. Sometimes fare increases don't stick but surcharges do. Airlines CAN adjust their models to account for inflation. You don't even need to tie it to the CPI, but you could put in a stipulation that says any year the CPI exceeds 5% or 10% that the pay rates would be renegotiated. Thats not too much to ask is it?

 

[DoinTime]

You don't even need to tie it to the CPI, but you could put in a stipulation that says any year the CPI exceeds 5% or 10% that the pay rates would be renegotiated. Thats not too much to ask is it?

You thinking that Carter is going to get reelected?

 

[dojetdriver]

Definitely sets the standard for ASA/XJT JCBA.

Beg to differ. My current (concessionary) rate is higher then the DOS rate.

XJT's pre concessionary rates, plus the usual 4-6% added per year from 2009 till we get a JCBA should be the standard.

 

[CptMurf]

It should be, but that's the thing about concessions. There gone. You now have a new starting point, and will be lucky to get back anything close to pre concession levels in the JCBA.

As far as 9E, XJ, 9L goes... The rates are ok. Not great, not bad. But if you look at the work rules and soft money that had to be brought up, the TA looks pretty good. My biggest complaint is the carve outs on Q/Sf340 pay, min day on small domiciles, and losing XJ Ready Reserve rules.

 

[bri5150]

Can't budget for it??

Bull********************! If inflation goes nuts the airlines can and will raise their fares as much as necessary to remain in business. Sometimes fare increases don't stick but surcharges do. Airlines CAN adjust their models to account for inflation. You don't even need to tie it to the CPI, but you could put in a stipulation that says any year the CPI exceeds 5% or 10% that the pay rates would be renegotiated. Thats not too much to ask is it?

You have to look at the big picture here. What if everyone started paying their employees based soley on CPI? Wouldn't inflation just spin up and out of control. Raising everyone's pay when it goes up would make matters much worse I would think. I understand your point, but for the greater good, this is a very bad idea.

 

[Jar Jar]

You have to look at the big picture here. What if everyone started paying their employees based soley on CPI? Wouldn't inflation just spin up and out of control. Raising everyone's pay when it goes up would make matters much worse I would think. I understand your point, but for the greater good, this is a very bad idea.

Everyone?

What do you reckon is the % of american workers whose pay is tied to a 5 year contract (10 years once renegotiated) ??

Last I checked only about ~10% of Americans were unionized, the rest have the ability to say 'hey boss, i need a raise'.

 

[Jar Jar]

Tying the rates to inflation is an aside to the fact that these rates are going to be in effect 10 years from now. They will be used as a basis for every other regional CBA negotiation for the next 10 years. Are we all really resigned to having $25k/yr FOs for the next 10 years too?

 

[Flyer1015]

Jezus! Listen to you people! This thread has watered down to "my penis is bigger than your penis." Seriously people, get over yourselves. I can't fathom people defending their regionals and saying we make more here, we make more there.

Bottom line is PCL/XJ/Colgan just got a very decent TA and is good for the industry.

 

[WayBack]

Jezus! Listen to you people! This thread has watered down to "my penis is bigger than your penis." Seriously people, get over yourselves. I can't fathom people defending their regionals and saying we make more here, we make more there.

Bottom line is PCL/XJ/Colgan just got a very decent TA and is good for the industry.

Good for the industry? So another ALPA regional can come in and undercut your new contract?
Just remember, the bar has never been on a steady rise. There is always another pilot group who will undercut you.....Mesa and Republic for example.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Good for the industry? So another ALPA regional can come in and undercut your new contract?
Just remember, the bar has never been on a steady rise. There is always another pilot group who will undercut you.....Mesa and Republic for example.

Didn't you hear the latest news? J.O. and B.B. are planning on giving all their pilots huge pay increases!!:laugh:

 

[dojetdriver]

It should be, but that's the thing about concessions. There gone. You now have a new starting point, and will be lucky to get back anything close to pre concession levels in the JCBA.

I disagree. After taking a total of 4 paycuts since 9/11, there's NO reason what so ever why we should be making LESS on the JCBA than what we're making now. That's called a concession.

 

[Flyer1015]

Good for the industry? So another ALPA regional can come in and undercut your new contract?
Just remember, the bar has never been on a steady rise. There is always another pilot group who will undercut you.....Mesa and Republic for example.

It's good for the industry in many ways. I can't control bottom feeders and evil management like Jon Ornstein. But other regionals, like Eagle, rely upon the industry average pay for their future pay increases. If they can use us to get a higher pay increase, then so be it. That helps them too.

 

[WayBack]

It's good for the industry in many ways. I can't control bottom feeders and evil management like Jon Ornstein. But other regionals, like Eagle, rely upon the industry average pay for their future pay increases. If they can use us to get a higher pay increase, then so be it. That helps them too.

Those new pay rates in your TA aren't pay raises. They're not going to help anyone, not even the pilots collecting those.
All they did was put your pay just above qualifying for food stamps, but in 5 years, you will qualify for food stamps again. So I guess that's a positive.