9E t a

[asayankee]

An absolute mess? No, not really. I'm guessing you weren't here before, under the old contract and the absolute mess that that was.

Yes I was here under the old contract with the old reserve "rules" and in many ways the new contract is better, but also worse. In typical ASA fashion, one set of abuses has been traded for another. We close one set of loopholes and they simply open others. Business as usual unfortunately. The companies refusal to work with us on the red-arrow debacle simply indicates that the Brad Holt "honeymoon" is over.

 

[sweptback]

The companies refusal to work with us on the red-arrow debacle simply indicates that the Brad Holt "honeymoon" is over.

Bingo.

 

[Skippy]

why hasnt anyone posted the freaking payrates yet? WHY?

 

[Papps]

Inflation adjusted all capt. pay is a pay cut, as is almost all FO pay.

 

[Tarzan]

The companies refusal to work with us on the red-arrow debacle simply indicates that the Brad Holt "honeymoon" is over.

Oh really? You mean like how the union has worked with the company on PBS? Every single cent PBS would have the company, ALPA demanded it and a significant amount more in concessions. It seems more to me that ALPA wants to flex its muscle and the company shoved back.

 

[Tarzan]

why hasnt anyone posted the freaking payrates yet? WHY?

Take the ASA pay rates and subtract 5%.

 

[Smarta$$]

what reserve section in the old contract? you mean the handful of words that basically states you are CS beotch 24/7/365.

the new language is an improvement, now you are their beotch only 20-21 days a month (can't go below min days off)

Life will be much worse for me under the new contract. I have almost never been extended into a day off, but the Ready Reserve rules and being put back on reserve for 12 hours after finishing a trip will be devastating.

I'll keep the old contract thank you.

 

[Smarta$$]

Inflation adjusted all capt. pay is a pay cut, as is almost all FO pay.

Confirmed. Believe me, you do not want to see them.

 

[asayankee]

Oh really? You mean like how the union has worked with the company on PBS? Every single cent PBS would have the company, ALPA demanded it and a significant amount more in concessions. It seems more to me that ALPA wants to flex its muscle and the company shoved back.

Why should we give them millions of dollars in concessions per year for nothing in return? Why should I give them my time off? Why should I give up my scheduling flexibility? No other airlines have done that (with the exception of non-union Skywest). We're not asking for "everything" as you say....but we should get something!

Since you are feeling so generous though, why don't you just send me some of your money while we're at it? We can set up a payment plan where I slowly bleed you and take more and more as the years go by. If it makes you feel better I can also put out a Tuesday newsletter where I cheer the miraculous daily efforts our employees, but then complain about the economy and ask you to work harder for less total compensation. Will that make you happy?

 

[Tarzan]

Why should we give them millions of dollars in concessions per year for nothing in return? Why should I give them my time off? Why should I give up my scheduling flexibility? No other airlines have done that (with the exception of non-union Skywest). We're not asking for "everything" as you say....but we should get something!

No other airlines? We are one of the few without PBS. 9E has it for one. Delta does for another. Last thing I heard, the company was willing to give about half back to the union. Go ask some questions. You may not like what you are hearing because you don't have the facts in the case. When it save the company X amount of dollars and the wants it all plus another million, it defeats the purpose.

Fact is, crunch time is here and the union isn't negotiating in good faith. The Delta MEC can not save your job. They will waste exactly ZERO negotiating capital on us. PBS may be a bitter pill to swallow but it will level the playing field in regards to block hour costs. You can still get your time off and if you learn the system, you can still stretch out your vacation. Straight from one of the guys working the PBS issue, "The only place it is concessionary is on vacation BUT you can still stretch it out if you wanted too." Sounds bad huh?

 

[asayankee]

No other airlines? We are one of the few without PBS. 9E has it for one. Delta does for another. Last thing I heard, the company was willing to give about half back to the union. Go ask some questions. You may not like what you are hearing because you don't have the facts in the case. When it save the company X amount of dollars and the wants it all plus another million, it defeats the purpose.

Fact is, crunch time is here and the union isn't negotiating in good faith. The Delta MEC can not save your job. They will waste exactly ZERO negotiating capital on us. PBS may be a bitter pill to swallow but it will level the playing field in regards to block hour costs. You can still get your time off and if you learn the system, you can still stretch out your vacation. Straight from one of the guys working the PBS issue, "The only place it is concessionary is on vacation BUT you can still stretch it out if you wanted too." Sounds bad huh?

Obviously other airlines have PBS...you're pretty dense if you think that is what I meant. What I said was nobody gave them PBS for nothing. Also, we are not asking for all the savings plus 1 million. Where do you get this crap??? The company can save anywhere from $6-$12 million annually....we are asking for half of the minimum savings or $3 million in credits to offset the extra time at work we will have to do. We're not even asking for "actual" money. Continental even got more than that out of a bankruptcy judge!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Come on, this TA has been out for a couple weeks. Can't one of you at least post the bullet points? I mean come on. If it is that bad then a recall should be in order.

 

[Flyprdu]

The initial 50 seat rate is the average of:

Air Wisconsin
American Eagle
ASA
Comair
Express Jet
Mesa
Mesaba
PSA
Republic
Skywest
TSA

The initial 76 seat rates are the average of:

ASA
Comair
Compass
Mesaba
Republic
Skywest

44-59 seat turbojet CA:

57.38
59.68
61.96
64.01
65.94
67.93
69.98
72.10
74.33
76.62
78.83
81.37
83.76
86.24
88.25
89.98
91.68
93.29

FO:
23.11
32.15
35.06
36.83
37.84
38.69
39.47
40.05


60-76 turbojet CA:
61.27
63.10
65.73
67.70
69.39
71.52
73.72
75.91
78.57
81.31
83.78
86.48
89.02
91.77
94.52
97.07
99.55
102.09

FO:
25.73
34.48
36.81
38.33
39.30
40.26
41.25
42.03
42.06
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
42.08
43.07
44.03
44.93
45.96

 

[snap145]

be prepared to see history made here by the 9E pilots...remember no ALPA carrier has ever collectivley voted a TA down...time to man up boys...everyone here has been talking the talk..now who is gonna walk the walk????

 

[WayBack]

be prepared to see history made here by the 9E pilots...remember no ALPA carrier has ever collectivley voted a TA down...time to man up boys...everyone here has been talking the talk..now who is gonna walk the walk????

They won't vote it down. They're affriad to. They just don't have the company setting in the fear factor, but the union is bringing it up the rear as well.
The pilots are being threatened by the union that if they don't vote it in, life will become worse. It's a typical ALPA tactic. And they should be looking out for your best interest, right?
I can just see this being voted through and the headlines of the next ALPA magainze "Pinnacle Pilots Vote in Industry Leading Contract"...while Prater and the cronnies blow smoke up everyones behind.
In the end, the MEC who "negotiated" this industry average TA will never fly under it, because they're too busy on union duty. They forget what it's like to be a line pilot, and they're in bed with management. As all ALPA MEC's are.
So for all the guys who give the SkyWest pilots crap for not voting in ALPO, how does it make you feel that SKW, a non-ALPA carrier who got a PAY RAISE (and dont give me this "riding the coat tails of ASA" BS) while Pinnacle, an ALPO carrier is getting bent over?
Looks like carriers that arent ALPA have a better QOL, treated better by management and have a higher payscale (SWA for example).

In the end, this POS will voted through, and the 9E pilots will begin their excuses "We were backed into a corner" or "It would have been a lot worse".....Just remember how many times you 9E guys gave the other regionals for signing crap contracts. THis is the time to raise the bar....but it's not going to be done by you guys.

PS
I thought since Obama was voted in, this TA was going to be industry leading because you had the NMB in your corner? I guess they're out to lunch on that one.