80-100hrs of IOE at mesa??

[Jack Mehoff]

A friend of mine at Mesa said the average IOE time is now runing 80-100 hours. Sims have been extened from 10 to 15-20 to accomidate the new skill level of the new hires! I'd be really nervous if I was a capt there. Doesn't the FAA have any oversight to say thats too much hand holding?

 

[skiandsurf]

A friend of mine at Mesa said ...

You'll admit to having friends at mesa?

 

[Jack Mehoff]

yeah I got a friend on the inside. Doesn't every family have an "uncle jail bird joey"? haha

 

[PropPiedmont]

A friend of mine at Mesa said the average IOE time is now runing 80-100 hours. Sims have been extened from 10 to 15-20 to accomidate the new skill level of the new hires! I'd be really nervous if I was a capt there. Doesn't the FAA have any oversight to say thats too much hand holding?

Pilot754 here ya go.

 

[Shrek]

80-100 hours is absolutely RIDICULOUS..........WOW

 

[Mr Wu]

What's the difference between that and turning the guy loose after 30 hours to have his captains train him?

 

[Brasilia Flyer]

At SkyWest, the max is 50 hours. Period. In other words, by 50 hours you've either got a successful line check or a termination letter.

 

[Baze]

I thought Mesa new-hires got the first 50 hours at Mesa and the remaining 50 at SkyWest?

 

[Mookie]

true dat...

Mookie

 

[Soverytired]

I may have started this one. (Heh)

All I know is that a check airman said the average IOE time has gone up through the roof lately. When pressed for specifics, he told me that he personally had a student require 86 hours of IOE. He also said that many students are getting extra sim time, once unheard of at the MAG.

That was a few months ago. What the AVERAGE new hire gets is beyond me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA needs to push for higher 121 minimums..... No other profession has such low entry requirements.....

 

[Flyingdutchman]

... or payscales

 

[JoeMerchant]

... or payscales

They are directly related..... Higher entry requirements would result in higher entry payscales....

Based on the requirements, the pay isn't really that bad.....

 

[AutoBus]

A friend of mine at Mesa said the average IOE time is now runing 80-100 hours. Sims have been extened from 10 to 15-20 to accomidate the new skill level of the new hires! I'd be really nervous if I was a capt there. Doesn't the FAA have any oversight to say thats too much hand holding?

Some 1500 hour wundercaptain nervous? they don't know enough to be nervous!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Based on the requirements, the pay isn't really that bad.....

I'll take "self-esteem issues" for $100, Alex. Who gives a ******************** about the entry requirements...how about looking at the responsibility that goes along with this job instead?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'll take "self-esteem issues" for $100, Alex. Who gives a ******************** about the entry requirements...how about looking at the responsibility that goes along with this job instead?

Tougher entry requirements will raise the pay..... It's really quite simple, but then I don't expect you to understand.

If the responsibility is so great, which I agree with by the way, then why do we allow people to occupy the seat when they shouldn't be there?

If your wallet is big enough, you can become a 121 pilot in 10 months. Can you become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, architect, or engineer in 10 months?

See the connection yet?

 

[T-prop]

They are directly related..... Higher entry requirements would result in higher entry payscales....

Based on the requirements, the pay isn't really that bad.....

Ya, in the early-mid 90's if you had 2500 hrs, an ATP and 1000 multi, you would be LUCKY to get a call from Mesa for an FO position on a 1900. According to your flawed logic Mesa should have been paying really well. They never have and never will. . .

However, recently a hiring bonus was offered for the first time for pilots, after they DROPPED mins.
(Mesa, Republic)

Hmm. . .

Ask a pilot who has been in this industry for 2-3 decades if he remembers the last time an airline offered a signing bonus to pilots. He will either choke on his sandwich or fall off his chair laughing.

The supply is weak compared to demand, therefore the value of the supply and competition for it is greater.

ECON 101

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Ity's funny that you believe that the pay should be higher, but you are the one advocating that ASA pilots cut and run with this current contract. So what is it? Which face are we talking out of today?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ity's funny that you believe that the pay should be higher, but you are the one advocating that ASA pilots cut and run with this current contract. So what is it? Which face are we talking out of today?

It's funny that you don't understand the current situation. The pay SHOULD be higher. But "SHOULD" doesn't mean squat!

The pay SHOULD be higher.

We SHOULDN"T be competing with each other for flying within a brand.

The entry requirements SHOULD be higher.

I SHOULD be able to transport my experience across company lines, but I can't....

There is the SHOULD face, and then there is the IS face.... You have to deal with the hand you are dealt, not the one you SHOULD have been dealt...

I am dealing with one we have been dealt, you are dealing with the one whe SHOULD have been dealt...

If 121 regs required 1200 hours, this contract would already be settled......

 

[Stifler's Mom]

My parents didn't raise me to be the type of person that backs down from what he believes in. Sorry, but I refuse to put my tail between my legs on this.

 

[JDREsquire1224]

While absurd, at least give credit to Mesa for simply NOT sticking these guys out on the line after 30 hours or so by lowering their qual standards. At least they have the insight to acknowledge the problem with hiring such inexperienced problems and put forth the proper time to train them. It's certainly not as if they want to hire such incompetence, but they've got a business to run, and I'm glad to hear that are putting in the time to run is safely, which is my utmost concern when flying.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The supply is weak compared to demand, therefore the value of the supply and competition for it is greater.

ECON 101

Exactly.... what would the supply be like if the entry requirements were higher? If the minimums were 1200 hours, then none of the regionals would be filling classes right now....

What would they do then.... they would raise their pay until they could fill their classes....

ECON 101 indeed..... Supply and demand.... We need to tighten the supply more....

 

[T-prop]

That would be nice. . . now I understand your point. It'll be an interesting few years ahead.

 

[T-prop]

While absurd, at least give credit to Mesa for simply NOT sticking these guys out on the line after 30 hours or so by lowering their qual standards. At least they have the insight to acknowledge the problem with hiring such inexperienced problems and put forth the proper time to train them. It's certainly not as if they want to hire such incompetence, but they've got a business to run, and I'm glad to hear that are putting in the time to run is safely, which is my utmost concern when flying.

Oh, trust me. It's not Mesa who decided to increase IOE. It is the check-airmen there who are risking their jobs fighting Mesa to be able to give extra IOE.

 

[JoeMerchant]

My parents didn't raise me to be the type of person that backs down from what he believes in. Sorry, but I refuse to put my tail between my legs on this.

My parents didn't raise me to pick a fight I couldn't win.... Don't show up to a gun fight with a knife...

I'm not backing down Stifler, I want to fight from a stronger postion than we currently have..... You have been listening to the ALPA chest thumpers too much...

ALPA needs to approach this fight differently than they are currently doing... The current approach isn't working...

Don't tuck and run, but dont cut your own nuts off either....

 

[jmreii]

Like anything else, you get what you pay. I wonder what the training costs are like.

 

[labbats]

Some 1500 hour wundercaptain nervous? they don't know enough to be nervous!

Mesa's upgrades have slowed to a crawl. The whole idea was to get in, get your PIC time and get out. Now that process is pushing 3 years minimum, closer to 4.

Mesa is a sinking ship.

 

[OPECJet]

I've been hearing of FNGs with 20 plus sim sessions before passing the checkride. Scary.

 

[Sam Snead]

...yet these crews mostly don't crash!

possibly thanks to the Wonder of Modern Technology?

Flight Directors?

Radar Altimeters? (Just flare when it sez "10")

?

 

[McRuff]

A friend of mine at mesa just called his training department and got a average of 33 hours.