8 hour flight time limit

[Icelandair]

They ought to make the rule based on duty day not flight time

 

[Mr Wu]

They ought to make the rule based on duty day not flight time

Crew planning would have a field day with that. One of my days every week this month is 9 legs, 7:05 block, 10:50 duty. Definitely need a beer after that one.


How the hell do you put in a ":" and a "0" together without it coming up as a smily?

 

[ReverseSensing]

How the hell do you put in a ":" and a "0" together without it coming up as a smily?

Put a space in there: 7 : 05

 

[Lownslo]

I coulda been there by the time u guys figured this one out.

 

[Paris]

How can so many people have different answers to such a fundamental question?

 

[auspac]

So refreshing to read a thread with possible educational consequences and not the typical who is lowering the bar more this week discussion.

 

[ReverseSensing]

So refreshing to read a thread with possible educational consequences and not the typical who is lowering the bar more this week discussion.

Believe me, I have notified the moderators. This will not stand!

 

[Erlanger]

To answer the question I put forward;

Here's another twist to that question. Before coming to work, your trip is scheduled for 7:58 minutes of flying. Duty day is not a factor here, lets say. When you show up and check in, it now shows a flight time day of 8:10. Dispatch has amended the times. Are you legal to start and finish that trip if it will take you over the 8 hours?

The FAA interpretation was this, since I was in this situation. The ruling (I don't have it in writing, though my company does though) If the trip is the original trip as it appeared in the original bidding and is based on historical times and then the times change later, even before the trip starts; it is consisted legal to start and finish even though it goes over the 8 hours.

 

[ERJFO]

Hi!

This from the pov of scheduled -121, from what I remember at TSA ground school in 2001.

The old way of interpreting the regs was legal to start a trip, legal to finish. That changed to a leg-by-leg evaluation at some point. The FAA re-interpreted their own regs and they were sued by the ATA which claimed that the FAA re-interpretation amounted to creating new regs. The FAA won, which is why the scheduled airlines now use the leg-by-leg method.

If your trip/day is scheduled under 8 hours, you're legal to start. Then, u have to evaluate each leg separately.

If, on your last leg, it should take you 45" of block time, and you block out at 7+00, u r OK as you would block in at 7+45. However, if you then took a 20" taxi delay, you CAN'T takeoff, as that would put you at 8+05 at the end of that leg. U have to taxi back to the gate and the airline will get a new crew to fly that leg.

Now, if you did block out at 7+00 for the 45" block time leg, and you took off normally at 7+05, and then, enroute, you took a 30" holding delay, for example because of ATC requirements, you would now block in at 8+15. In this case, U would be perfectly legal, because the delay was IN FLIGHT during your last leg and out of your control.

So, in both cases the answer would be no, you can't block out knowing u will be over your 8+00 when you block in.

This is what we were taught at TSA, which is a scheduled, 121 carrier. I now work at a 121 supplemental carrier, and they fly legal to start-legal to finish. They are allowed to do this either because it is supplemental, or our local FSDO allows it.

If it's only because our FSDO allows it, that is bad, because if something were to happen, then FAA HQ could easily violate the pilots and our co. by saying the FSDO was interpreting the regs incorrectly, and we would be screwed. This has happened recently with the charter/broker situation and what different entities are required/allowed to do with regards to flying charter PAX aircraft.

cliff
YIP

Note: I don't use the 121 regs with the aircraft I operate, which is why I don't understand the 121 vs. 121 supplemental differences situation so well.

You are thinking about "duty" time not "flight" time.

 

[pilot05]

"may accept an assignment for flight time ETC..."
Lets say your going to be 30/7 on day 4 of a 4 day trip by about 5 minutes. It's day 1. Would checking in and actually starting the pairing be "accepting" the assignment? Or can they schedule be fixed for example on the evening of day 3? Say you think you would probably be able to make up the 5 minutes the first three day because the wx is good.

Or would it need to ammended prior to checking in on day 1?

I guess what's the definition of assignment? A pairing or a duty day?

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