Stifler's Mom
MILF...MILF...MILF
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 5,125
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
8 hour flight time limit
- Thread starter Eric
- Start date
- Watchers 20
SiuDude
Internet tough guy
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Posts
- 969
All this leg-by-leg nonsense that AtpCliff is talking about does not involve flight time, but rest requirements. If you read the Whitlow letter, it says that after every leg, you must look back and find at least 8 hours of rest. Here's the quote:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"If, when this information is factored in, it is known or should be known that arrival based upon the actual expected flight time will not result in at least eight hours of look-back rest, then the flight may not leave the gate. If the flight is away from the gate, but not yet in the air, then the flight may not take off."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"If, when this information is factored in, it is known or should be known that arrival based upon the actual expected flight time will not result in at least eight hours of look-back rest, then the flight may not leave the gate. If the flight is away from the gate, but not yet in the air, then the flight may not take off."[/FONT]
Turtlesfly
Need a room check?
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2003
- Posts
- 678
sorry - diversions count as a change to your originally scheduled pairing. So does an air return, gate return et cetera et cetera . . .
the whole purpose of the legal to start legal to finish is that you don't have to taxi back to the gate if your taxi to the runway took 10 minutes longer than expected. Nor do you have to plummet out of the sky and divert if you get in a holding pattern and end up bumping over 8 hours. But, once you start adding diversions or returns or new assignments and re-dispatching, you no longer claim legal-to-start-legal-to-finish.
Bytheway, in response to the original post #1, it is never 8 hours in a "day." It is 8 hours in a duty period - I figured you knew, I just have to make sure you keep your "i"'s dotted and "t"'s crossed.
the whole purpose of the legal to start legal to finish is that you don't have to taxi back to the gate if your taxi to the runway took 10 minutes longer than expected. Nor do you have to plummet out of the sky and divert if you get in a holding pattern and end up bumping over 8 hours. But, once you start adding diversions or returns or new assignments and re-dispatching, you no longer claim legal-to-start-legal-to-finish.
Bytheway, in response to the original post #1, it is never 8 hours in a "day." It is 8 hours in a duty period - I figured you knew, I just have to make sure you keep your "i"'s dotted and "t"'s crossed.
SiuDude
Internet tough guy
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Posts
- 969
Cloudroller
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2005
- Posts
- 232
At Air Wisconsin, we are legal to start, legal to finish. Last month I had 1 day with 10.6 FAR block and another with 8.6 FAR block. I did not break any regs. I was legal to start, legal to finish due to circumstances beyond the company's control (wx). If you are fatigued, don't fly it. Otherwise you are legal in scheduled 121 ops.
regionalcap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2002
- Posts
- 903
As for as diversions go...read the bold print, turtlesfly
November 12, 1992
Richard P. Schweitzer
Zuckert, Scoutt & Rasenberger 888 Seventeenth Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20006-3959
Dear Mr. Schweitzer:
This is in response to your request dated July 31, 1992, for interpretation of 14 C.F.R. Section 121.471(g).
You ask about the following scenarios:
(1) When a carrier knows at the beginning of a multi-leg flight that adverse weather during the final leg will preclude the pilot from completing all the legs within the allowed flight time.
(2) When, prior to the final leg of a multi-leg flight, the carrier knows that adverse weather conditions along the final leg will preclude the pilot from completing the final leg within the allowed flight time.
Discussion:
Section 121.471(g) applies to both the scenarios you describe. It reads:
A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the air carrier (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.
If the schedule was set up by the air carrier so as to meet the requirements of §121.471(a)(4), deviations within the particular time frames due to weather or other unforeseen delays would be permitted. The key to the applicability of such an exception is the unforeseen weather conditions or other unforeseen delays disrupting an otherwise properly scheduled flight. If the original scheduling is upset because the weather causes a diversion, the final segment(s) may,
nonetheless, be conducted, notwithstanding that the final segment(s) will be completed outside the eight hour period originally planned.
This interpretation is supported by the preamble to the mostrecent revision of the flight time rules. "Subsection 121.471(g) ... state that a flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for duty in excess of flight time limitations if the scheduled flights normally terminate within the limitation" (emphasis original) 50 FR 29306 at 29314,
July 18, 1985. No penalty exists in §121.471 for circumstances under which actual flight time exceeds scheduled flight time when the delay is due to circumstances beyond the control of the operator.
The flight time regulations have a premise that each certificate holder is scheduling realistically. The aforementioned preamble specifically states: "compliance with the flight scheduling rules requires each air carrier to schedule realistically. If actual flight time is consistently higher than the scheduled flight time allowed, the schedule should be adjusted." Thus, constant deviations from the flight and duty time limitations of Part 121 based upon such delays are not acceptable if the certificate holder is not scheduling realistically.
In light of the above discussion it should be clear that in both scenario (1) and (2) the remaining legs may be legally completed.
We hope that this satisfactorily answers your inquiries. Sincerely,
Donald P. Byrne Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
November 12, 1992
Richard P. Schweitzer
Zuckert, Scoutt & Rasenberger 888 Seventeenth Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20006-3959
Dear Mr. Schweitzer:
This is in response to your request dated July 31, 1992, for interpretation of 14 C.F.R. Section 121.471(g).
You ask about the following scenarios:
(1) When a carrier knows at the beginning of a multi-leg flight that adverse weather during the final leg will preclude the pilot from completing all the legs within the allowed flight time.
(2) When, prior to the final leg of a multi-leg flight, the carrier knows that adverse weather conditions along the final leg will preclude the pilot from completing the final leg within the allowed flight time.
Discussion:
Section 121.471(g) applies to both the scenarios you describe. It reads:
A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the air carrier (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.
If the schedule was set up by the air carrier so as to meet the requirements of §121.471(a)(4), deviations within the particular time frames due to weather or other unforeseen delays would be permitted. The key to the applicability of such an exception is the unforeseen weather conditions or other unforeseen delays disrupting an otherwise properly scheduled flight. If the original scheduling is upset because the weather causes a diversion, the final segment(s) may,
nonetheless, be conducted, notwithstanding that the final segment(s) will be completed outside the eight hour period originally planned.
This interpretation is supported by the preamble to the mostrecent revision of the flight time rules. "Subsection 121.471(g) ... state
July 18, 1985. No penalty exists in §121.471 for circumstances under which actual flight time exceeds scheduled flight time when the delay is due to circumstances beyond the control of the operator.
The flight time regulations have a premise that each certificate holder is scheduling realistically. The aforementioned preamble specifically states: "compliance with the flight scheduling rules requires each air carrier to schedule realistically. If actual flight time is consistently higher than the scheduled flight time allowed, the schedule should be adjusted." Thus, constant deviations from the flight and duty time limitations of Part 121 based upon such delays are not acceptable if the certificate holder is not scheduling realistically.
In light of the above discussion it should be clear that in both scenario (1) and (2) the remaining legs may be legally completed.
We hope that this satisfactorily answers your inquiries. Sincerely,
Donald P. Byrne Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
Turtlesfly
Need a room check?
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2003
- Posts
- 678
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
