7X Shakedown Article

[CMI]

7X Shakedown Article

Anyone read the “Flying the Oceans a 7X Shakedown” article in the November 2009 Business & Commercial Aviation on page 26? I was taken back a little with all the problems they were having with the aircraft. Is this normal for a new aircraft entering the market? I thought Dassault would have most of the bugs worked out before going to market.

 

[Cat3C]

We had similar issues when we took delivery of our 2000EX EASy's several years ago. I think it is fairly well know that with the Honeywell/Dassault airframe/avionics package there were some issues. We did not miss any trips and received great support from the parties involved. As the software updates came around, the spurious messages and problems began to go away very quickly. There are some techniques that need to be adjusted between school and the aircraft as well.

My guess is that very soon as the machine and avionics mature with multitudes of updates, the problems will disappear as it has for our aircraft. My guess is that it is and will be a great aircraft.
ymmv

 

[Gulfstream 200]

We had similar issues when we took delivery of our 2000EX EASy's several years ago. I think it is fairly well know that with the Honeywell/Dassault airframe/avionics package there were some issues. We did not miss any trips and received great support from the parties involved. As the software updates came around, the spurious messages and problems began to go away very quickly. There are some techniques that need to be adjusted between school and the aircraft as well.

My guess is that very soon as the machine and avionics mature with multitudes of updates, the problems will disappear as it has for our aircraft. My guess is that it is and will be a great aircraft.
ymmv

This is very accurate.

The airplane in the article has a 100% dispatch rate.

The issues are odd boot up error messages and test fault messages. More of a headache than a trip stopper. Coming out of an EASy or other newer type plane you may be used to it and will adapt quick.

Not making excuses for it, I personally think these planes have gotten too complex. Since when did we ever need to run an automated test on the RAT or the Windshield? Been flying for years without that....

Its a pretty neat airplane - performs great, is so quiet its eerie, and is a blast to fly.

Typical Falcon downside of touchy brakes and no TR's..wish they added them.

 

[johnsonrod]

I thought Citigroup was forced to dump its 7X order due to all of the lame political pressure a few months back? Do they still operate the Global and the Falcon 900EXs or did they sell some of those off?

Glad to see that department is still up and running (unlike those from the auto companies)... One thing is for certain, the author (Ross) is a very good writer and I have enjoyed his articles over the years.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I thought Citigroup was forced to dump its 7X order due to all of the lame political pressure a few months back? Do they still operate the Global and the Falcon 900EXs or did they sell some of those off?

Glad to see that department is still up and running (unlike those from the auto companies)... One thing is for certain, the author (Ross) is a very good writer and I have enjoyed his articles over the years.

The plane in the article is not a Citigroup airplane.

 

[johnsonrod]

The plane in the article is not a Citigroup airplane.

Good to know. After all of the flak they have received due to the TARP I doubt it would have been possible to operate one. Regardless, a global bank like Citigroup needs a tool (or tools) to manage globally. The argument is completely ridiculous considering Congresspeople use private jets as well.

Oh well - rant over....

 

[Heavy Set]

I just read the article myself and it was very well written. I agree that the author is a good writer and I too have read a few of his articles.

I believe I have seen the 7X at HPN - nice looking bird! You probably need to be a C-5/C-17 or F22 pilot to get hired to fly it. I think the article mentioned that one of the pilots was a C-5 guy.

 

[Capt1124]

A mechanic I used to work with was saying once the any time you do serious maintenance on a glass airplane you have to reload the software, which takes a day if you know what you're doing and a couple days if you don't. A DO I used to work for said on a G4 sometimes you just have to shut everything down and start cold. And it has to be even more complicated on the new airplanes.

 

[LJ45]

I just read the article and it sounds like the 7x isn't ready for prime time yet, reminds me of the Learjet 45 when it came out to soon and operators became test pilots. Also, some questionable great French engineering involved.

 

[stupidpilot]

Saw one @ DAL the other day. It was absolutely stunning!

 

[rice]

I just read the article myself and it was very well written. I agree that the author is a good writer and I too have read a few of his articles.

I believe I have seen the 7X at HPN - nice looking bird! You probably need to be a C-5/C-17 or F22 pilot to get hired to fly it. I think the article mentioned that one of the pilots was a C-5 guy.

Nah, one of the guys on there is nothing but an ex Lear/Westwind charter puke with no military experience. Hell sometimes I'm impressed when he can find his own A$$ with both hands!!!

 

[G100driver]

Nah, one of the guys on there is nothing but an ex Lear/Westwind charter puke with no military experience. Hell sometimes I'm impressed when he can find his own A$$ with both hands!!!

Not to mention the guy cannot even spell fish let alone catch one ...

 

[G4G5]

Pretty much standard to have problems on a new aircraft, they will work through it.

I worked for an operator who had one of the first 900's. The APU would never start, it had bugs on top pf bugs. Not to mention a redesigned TR that was prone to failure. They worked it out

We took delivery of a G4 to replace it, no perf computer or auto throttles and the brake by wire was so bad that big G had to switch back to the old G3 brakes. They worked it out. Flew a new 1400's serial number and it was perfect from the word go.

Took deliver of a very low serial number F2000. Always full of messages especially if it was cold outside. I had a hyd line blow off the engine driven pump because the mfr forgot to permaswage it. One of our guys had an engine blow sudden stoppage, at V1 max gross weight. The combination of a new airframe type and engine type is never a good thing. They worked it out

Took delivery of a very low serial number G5. The hyd system was so bad that Gulfstream had to take the aircraft back, remove the two hyd pumps and switch back to the G4 single pump system. Brakes were bad from the word go. They worked it out. Flew a new 100+ serial number and it was bug free from delivery.

G550 avionics issues were numerous.

You are financially compensated to take a low time serial number aircraft. The guy paying for serial number 100+ no doubt pays quite a bit more then the guy who got serial number 10.

What most owners don't realize is that they pay for it, nothing is for free. You are the test bed. Deadheads back to the repair facility add up fast, lost trips cost money and so do test flight to show the reps what you are seeing because you are tired of hearing "we can duplicate that on the ground". Paying your maintenance constant overtime to come in and work with the tech rep costs you money, so does the time and money that you spend to update your aircraft to the current mod status of production aircraft. Your warranty typically expires before all the bugs are truly worked out, resale on your aircraft is always lower then that of a higher serial number, I could go on and on.

You are the one on the front line taking the hit when you have to listen to the," tell me why I paid XX millions for this POS" as you drive in the FBO's van to the airline terminal with your pax.

The 7x will no doubt follow in the steps of predecessors. While flying a new aircraft is great I will take a high serial number any day of the week. Let the other guy play Chuck Yeager. Too bad they never ask me.........................

 

[pilotjc]

Not to mention the guy cannot even spell fish let alone catch one ...

I hear he uses an old beer can and shoe laces to fish with.

 

[LJ45]

Pretty much standard to have problems on a new aircraft, they will work through it.

I worked for an operator who had one of the first 900's. The APU would never start, it had bugs on top pf bugs. Not to mention a redesigned TR that was prone to failure. They worked it out

We took delivery of a G4 to replace it, no perf computer or auto throttles and the brake by wire was so bad that big G had to switch back to the old G3 brakes. They worked it out. Flew a new 1400's serial number and it was perfect from the word go.

Took deliver of a very low serial number F2000. Always full of messages especially if it was cold outside. I had a hyd line blow off the engine driven pump because the mfr forgot to permaswage it. One of our guys had an engine blow sudden stoppage, at V1 max gross weight. The combination of a new airframe type and engine type is never a good thing. They worked it out

Took delivery of a very low serial number G5. The hyd system was so bad that Gulfstream had to take the aircraft back, remove the two hyd pumps and switch back to the G4 single pump system. Brakes were bad from the word go. They worked it out. Flew a new 100+ serial number and it was bug free from delivery.

G550 avionics issues were numerous.

You are financially compensated to take a low time serial number aircraft. The guy paying for serial number 100+ no doubt pays quite a bit more then the guy who got serial number 10.

What most owners don't realize is that they pay for it, nothing is for free. You are the test bed. Deadheads back to the repair facility add up fast, lost trips cost money and so do test flight to show the reps what you are seeing because you are tired of hearing "we can duplicate that on the ground". Paying your maintenance constant overtime to come in and work with the tech rep costs you money, so does the time and money that you spend to update your aircraft to the current mod status of production aircraft. Your warranty typically expires before all the bugs are truly worked out, resale on your aircraft is always lower then that of a higher serial number, I could go on and on.

You are the one on the front line taking the hit when you have to listen to the," tell me why I paid XX millions for this POS" as you drive in the FBO's van to the airline terminal with your pax.

The 7x will no doubt follow in the steps of predecessors. While flying a new aircraft is great I will take a high serial number any day of the week. Let the other guy play Chuck Yeager. Too bad they never ask me.........................

Excellent post. Thanks !!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Its just an airplane guys, not the space shuttle and nobodys a test pilot. It works fine and pays the bills.....

And Mr G100, I think you are writing from scenic KTEB while I'm killin' the Steelhead up on Erie as we speak......

Ricer, just shut yer hole and get on that charter. Stop looking for sympathy on Facebook, we aren't buying it. BTW happy vets day, I do mean that..

And JC, I'm guessing you know more about diapers these days than airplanes......not that this is a bad thing, lol.

Guy goes away for a few days and gets attacked on flightinfo.com, lol. You guys are mean.

 

[54fighting]

I believe I have seen the 7X at HPN - nice looking bird! You probably need to be a C-5/C-17 or F22 pilot to get hired to fly it. I think the article mentioned that one of the pilots was a C-5 guy.

Or just a bag of rocks :laugh:

Ricer, just shut yer hole and get on that charter. Stop looking for sympathy on Facebook, we aren't buying it.

Glad I'm not the only one getting tired of it, wah, wah, 3 weeks in India
:beer:
Where the hell is Gumby, I need the lav dumped.

 

[Gumby]

Or just a bag of rocks :laugh:

Glad I'm not the only one getting tired of it, wah, wah, 3 weeks in India
:beer:
Where the hell is Gumby, I need the lav dumped.

I'm here at 0230L, doing my New Delhi tour.....Oooofa! What a ********************hole!

 

[54fighting]

ahh, nothing like the sweet, sweet smell of Delhi in the early morning. Enjoy!
:beer:

 

[g4800xp]

I read the article and had a few questions. Is it a @370 initial alt at gross weight like a 604? I know they were at 350 a while but what is a normal 1st hour hour burn. They showed a @G4 fuel burn. Is it true the 7X has no refridgerated storage in the galley? Will it burn 3000 gallons less than a 550 or Global on the round trip they did? Thanks