757 Lands on Taxiway at EWR & Pilots Bolt

[Jack Mehoff]

Those old grey haired side parted aviatior rayban wearn old timers probly got distracted while gripe'n about the spikey haired oakely wearn 20's something pilots fly'n the RJ infront of them...

Or could be someone got distracted play'n the repeater.......That'll happen

 

[flatspin7]

Honestly... If I was involved in an incident such as this I wouldnt think about talking to the press.
A) The company will fry you for talking.
B) The Union will be pissed because they wont be able to defend you as well as they could of.
C) The press will undoubtably get the facts wrong and make you look like a drunken cowboy pilot who is a danger to some poor scared 5 year old and her cute puppy.

That being said... I heard that the CA on that flight marched him self right down the the Chief Pilots Office the next morning and took the rap.

Also if you have ever done a circle to 29 at night you know that the PAPI is on the right side of the runway where 99% of the time its on the left... The taxiway lights on ZULU are a great deal brighter that Rwy 29. There are no REILs or ODALS or anything to make the runway stand out. I know of many people including myself who have been intially fooled by the set up and rolled out on Taxiway Z in EWR, obviously in all cases it got fixed before anyone noticed.
The weather in EWR on Saturday was awful with winds gusting to 40+ and lots of windshear and the like.

Before some of you RJ wannabees go ahead and burn these guys maybe you should read the facts, And not that toilet paper rag that is the New York Post. It goes waaaay beyond "2 morons land on a taxiway for no reason" Is there blame on these pilots... YES. The buck stops at the pointy end of the airplane, but there are many other factors that can open the door to this deal.

There is something that WE can all learn from this... And if you think you are immune to cockpit error you simply don't belong in a cockpit of an airplane with passengers on board. (or boxes for that matter)

 

[ptarmigan]

Putting this particular event aside, if you are ever involved in anything, call your union first (or competent aviation attorney if you don't have a union, and you SHOULD have their number with you at all times when exercising your certificate!).

Let the company (if applicable), FAA and NTSB know where to find you.

Do NOT go to the layover hotel or any other place that you can be easily found at.

Do NOT talk to the press, if they do find you, refer them to the company and union media person.

Tell your family to do the same. Your fellow pilots SHOULD do the same also!

 

[Mercury]

Honestly...

Before some of you RJ wannabees go ahead and burn these guys maybe you should read the facts, And not that toilet paper rag that is the New York Post.
There is something that WE can all learn from this... And if you think you are immune to cockpit error you simply don't belong in a cockpit of an airplane with passengers on board. (or boxes for that matter)

Well said Flatspin :beer:

 

[JP4user]

Nice posting flatspin.

Fins...we'll take your advice by considering the source. Speaking of monumentally stupid look at your career choice

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Nice posting flatspin.

Fins...we'll take your advice by considering the source. Speaking of monumentally stupid look at your career choice

Can you post anything of substance or is your whole miserable life on the internet dedicated to slamming of anyone who is of a different opinion of career, family and in general, life? I suppose not.... Glad you're happy.

 

[nimtz]

Nobody's perfect...we all make mistakes....yada yada. You can't ignore the fact that these guys fu#*ed up royally. Come on - Two professional pilots with thousands of hours of experience landing a plane with 157 passengers on a taxiway by mistake?!

1. I'm pretty sure that, beginning with your very first flight in an airplane, landing on the proper runway (or at least not a taxiway) is a very important.

2. I can hear one or both pilots thinking, "There are no numbers or threshold markings on this runway. That's weird. Oh well, I'm sure it's fine."

3. If anyone else was on that taxiway, 157+ people could have been killed.

I can't get these three things out of my head. No, I'm not perfect. Yes I, like us all, do really stupid things from time to time. And I'm not saying anyone needs to be fired or have their ticket pulled. But the fact remains that what these two did was MONUMENTALLY STUPID.

1) Read flatspin's post

2) Realize your sh!t stinks as well

3) Come to realization that karma can be a real b!tch

 

[ivauir]

Agreed. That's the exact philosophy that has kept aviation going for over a thousand years.

HUH? When do you think aviation started?

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Honestly... If I was involved in an incident such as this I wouldnt think about talking to the press.
A) The company will fry you for talking.
B) The Union will be pissed because they wont be able to defend you as well as they could of.
C) The press will undoubtably get the facts wrong and make you look like a drunken cowboy pilot who is a danger to some poor scared 5 year old and her cute puppy.

That being said... I heard that the CA on that flight marched him self right down the the Chief Pilots Office the next morning and took the rap.

Also if you have ever done a circle to 29 at night you know that the PAPI is on the right side of the runway where 99% of the time its on the left... The taxiway lights on ZULU are a great deal brighter that Rwy 29. There are no REILs or ODALS or anything to make the runway stand out. I know of many people including myself who have been intially fooled by the set up and rolled out on Taxiway Z in EWR, obviously in all cases it got fixed before anyone noticed.
The weather in EWR on Saturday was awful with winds gusting to 40+ and lots of windshear and the like.

Before some of you RJ wannabees go ahead and burn these guys maybe you should read the facts, And not that toilet paper rag that is the New York Post. It goes waaaay beyond "2 morons land on a taxiway for no reason" Is there blame on these pilots... YES. The buck stops at the pointy end of the airplane, but there are many other factors that can open the door to this deal.

There is something that WE can all learn from this... And if you think you are immune to cockpit error you simply don't belong in a cockpit of an airplane with passengers on board. (or boxes for that matter)

Nice post I agree 100%

 

[JP4user]

Glad you're happy.

I am thanks.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Agreed !!! Now, for some historical perspective....back in 1989-90 time frame...a B-737 went off the end of rwy 31 at LGA.

It went into the East river. After all the pax were taken care of, the Pam Am J/S'er offered his nearby crashpad to the cockpit crew. Now, the company knew where the pilots were....the ALPA folks knew where the pilots were...BUT...the NYC press didn't know where the pilots were.

...And that set it off....

Dramatic headlines, the DA threatening to press charges...even had a nearby Marriott bartender claim that the Captain of that airplane was in the Marriott bar drinking just a couple of hours before the crash....which the NYC press took off and ran with...even though, that crew had been on duty all day long, and not even near that hotel.

In the end, no charges were pressed, no retractions from the NYC newspapers, or the bartender....and both pilots still have their jobs.

Now, in this CAL situation, just because the flight crew didn't hang around long enough for the NY Post reported doesn't necessarily mean that they "bolted". No doubt CAL knows how to contact them as do their ALPA reps...thats really all that matters....isn't it?

Tejas

Nail on the Head, Tejas, your Comments like usual are on the money

Hats off to you

V1

 

[starchkr]

"Runway 2-9 is a little trickier than the others to land on," said Captain Thomas Heidenberger, a retired pilot who often flew into Newark. "There are no charted approaches -- in other words, an instrument landing system or a landing system guidance for that particular runway -- and the pilot has to visually look out of the cockpit to the runway and line themselves up with the runway."


HOLY $HIT, we are still supposed to be looking out the windows to line ourselves up with a runway??????????? I am glad that someone finally clued me in on that one.

First off, i know we all make mistakes, and i am in no way ragging on these two for messing up, buuuuut...wouldn't it make it MUCH easier to land on a runway if you didn't have to worry about confusing taxiway lights for runway lights? I would think that the lack of taxiway edge lights there would simply make you shoot for a landing between the only two sets of lights available, the runway edge lights...sounds simple enough. Hmmm, i don't know though, i have never flown into EWR so i really cannot pass any harsh judgement.

 

[Sniper Bob]

What was ceiling and visibility at the time of the incident?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Also if you have ever done a circle to 29 at night you know that the PAPI is on the right side of the runway where 99% of the time its on the left... The taxiway lights on ZULU are a great deal brighter that Rwy 29. There are no REILs or ODALS or anything to make the runway stand out. I know of many people including myself who have been intially fooled by the set up and rolled out on Taxiway Z in EWR, obviously in all cases it got fixed before anyone noticed.
The weather in EWR on Saturday was awful with winds gusting to 40+ and lots of windshear and the like.

Thanks for pointing that out Flatspin.....it's always easy for the Monday monring quarterbacks to read the news, look at a Jepp diagram and pass judgement without considering or understanding what those two guys were really seeing.

 

[FlyBunny]

Airspeed, altitude & brains, you've gotta have at least two.

Sadly, in your case, you have only two as well: Airspeed & Altitude!

Bunny

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What was ceiling and visibility at the time of the incident?

This was from another thread discussing the accident. I believe the CAL 757 touched down a little after 6 PM.

1. We landed at 17:20 and the sun was setting -- a beautiful sunset because of the thin overcast. So, I don't think the sun was in their eyes.

2. Visibility was probably 20+ miles.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sadly, in your case, you have only two as well: Airspeed & Altitude!

Bunny

Well, judging from his posts compared to yours, I'm inclined to say that he does have brains.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Not exusing what happened, but EWR doesn't have any taxiway edge lighting. I don't think there are any other major US airports that can say that (but I'm not positive).

Combine that with a relatively challenging circling approach and I can certainly see how it could happen.

LGA Doesn't either. Just weak little sticks.

 

[Squanto]

What is going to happen to these guys? Those out there with a lot of Airline time, will the Union throw them under the bus? The FAA will pull them out for how long? A year or more.

Say a prayer for those guys, they need all the help they can get.

Rgs

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Me too. Six years flying in to EWR and only circled to 29 once.

If you can't do it, don't accept it...