757 Lands on Taxiway at EWR & Pilots Bolt

[SpiderMan]

What is their FI screennames?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

FYI....last I heard is that the pilots involved are assissting the company in the investigation of the incident. So much for Pilots bolting...

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

In G. Bethune's book worse to first...he even talked about NOT firing a crew for doing a gear up landing because it was an honest mistake, they were following procedures up until that point, and they fessed up. All of these seem to be true in this incident.

Almost....Gordon Bethune explained the difference between firing the crew that landed gear up and not firing the crew that landed at the Navy Auxiliary field instead of CRP.

Tejas

 

[Tri-holer]

I personally believe they did a good job considering Jeppesen doesn't publish approach charts for taxiways and they had to make do with less than optimum data.

As someone mentioned earlier, the crew were probably ragging about the punk in the RJ landing ahead of them - and they were probably wondering why he was so far displaced from the centerline.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I personally believe they did a good job considering Jeppesen doesn't publish approach charts for taxiways and they had to make do with less than optimum data.

As someone mentioned earlier, the crew were probably ragging about the punk in the RJ landing ahead of them - and they were probably wondering why he was so far displaced from the centerline.

Well....unless they've heard the CVR....I think it's really best to wait until the investigation is complete...

Tejas

 

["Luke"]

I wonder if anyone has ever done this, and walked away without anyone ever noticing. If the plane went back out, the CVR would have recorded over it. You might have some people 'think' that it landed on the taxi way, but it wouldn't be a reputable source. The tower/ground controllers there are busy at certain times and may not have seen it. I suppose the black box might show them off of the LOC down low though. The crew could play ignorant and say "I'm dang near positive we didn't land on a taxi way". Of course they would have talked to their lawers first.

Has anyone ever done something wrong, and no one noticed?

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

No LOC on 29

 

[Fearless Tower]

I wonder if anyone has ever done this, and walked away without anyone ever noticing. If the plane went back out, the CVR would have recorded over it. You might have some people 'think' that it landed on the taxi way, but it wouldn't be a reputable source. The tower/ground controllers there are busy at certain times and may not have seen it. I suppose the black box might show them off of the LOC down low though. The crew could play ignorant and say "I'm dang near positive we didn't land on a taxi way". Of course they would have talked to their lawers first.

Has anyone ever done something wrong, and no one noticed?

If they hadn't realized their mistake and fessed up, I'm guessing the only indication that they landed on the taxiway would be the big black skid marks on Z. I can imagine it now....the next morning at EWR a bunch of people standing around scratching their heads looking at the tire marks like someone had done doughnuts in their front yard the night before.

 

[Sam Snead]

Does anyone know the width of the main gear on the 757? I'd be interested to know how much clearance the gear had from the taxiway edge.

Although if the wheels went off the edge, from the information provided on this thread about EWR, they wouldn't be running over any more than the plastic reflectors. And maybe some signs.

IMHO, this is a situation where the average crews will make mistakes regularly (perhaps 1 every 1000?) ... a circle to land in the type of weather described, in a 757 where the crew probably hasn't done that type of approach in the airplane in months or years, to EWR and runway with no navaid. In other words, it's probably a good thing that this 4/29 circle is rare.

Single pilot, I once aborted a takeoff on on a taxiway. I didn't turn myself in and the tower didn't either. I got lucky.

 

[igneousy2]

Almost....Gordon Bethune explained the difference between firing the crew that landed gear up and not firing the crew that landed at the Navy Auxiliary field instead of CRP.

Tejas

details details...it's been close to 10 years since i've read the book...I stand corrected.

Later.

 

[LR25]

Recurrent has been full of taxiway markings and hold short lines and powerpoint presentations about runway incursions. Now it is going to be about what a runway looks like.

True Dat. Funny how things work.

 

[densoo]

More pilot fatigue?

Associated Press

CHICAGO — A United Airlines plane's wing clipped the tail of another jetliner Tuesday morning as they taxied toward takeoff at O'Hare International Airport, aviation officials said. No injuries were reported.

One of the planes was turning left and the wing of the second plane, another United flight, hit the first plane's tail, said Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Tony Molinaro.

Both flights were canceled, United said on its Web site.

 

[1flier]

I checked the NTSB version of events and no mention of the pilots leaving the scene, its the preliminary but I think that it would have made more than the Ny Post if the crew would have just left. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20061101X01592&key=1

 

[Occam's Razor]

I wonder if anyone has ever done this, and walked away without anyone ever noticing. If the plane went back out, the CVR would have recorded over it. You might have some people 'think' that it landed on the taxi way, but it wouldn't be a reputable source. The tower/ground controllers there are busy at certain times and may not have seen it. I suppose the black box might show them off of the LOC down low though. The crew could play ignorant and say "I'm dang near positive we didn't land on a taxi way". Of course they would have talked to their lawers first.

Has anyone ever done something wrong, and no one noticed?

I got one. In 1995 I was taxiing out for takeoff at DFW and a Delta MD-80 took off on a taxiway. I didn't see it, but was on Ground freq when an American crew called Ground and reported that a Delta aircraft had just taken off on taxiway ___. The Ground controller paused a few seconds, then said, in a slow, measured voice: "Nobody up here saw anything wrong. Do wish to report it?"

The American crew responded, "Well...no."

From where we were, and the position of the American S80, it was obvious the preceding jet hadn't launched from the departure runway in use.

Kinda surreal. For the rest of the trip the F/O and I preceded every takeoff with, "Looks like a runway to me!"

 

[radar_contact]

It's the FAAs fault, tricking those poor guys by putting the papi on the wrong side. All approaches should look the same at the business end of the runway.

Just an Old Mans opinion,

Avdad

That's because it's in NJ where you have to make a right turn to go left (ie. jughandle)!!

 

[Metro752]

Does anyone know the width of the main gear on the 757? I'd be interested to know how much clearance the gear had from the taxiway edge.

Although if the wheels went off the edge, from the information provided on this thread about EWR, they wouldn't be running over any more than the plastic reflectors. And maybe some signs.

IMHO, this is a situation where the average crews will make mistakes regularly (perhaps 1 every 1000?) ... a circle to land in the type of weather described, in a 757 where the crew probably hasn't done that type of approach in the airplane in months or years, to EWR and runway with no navaid. In other words, it's probably a good thing that this 4/29 circle is rare.

Single pilot, I once aborted a takeoff on on a taxiway. I didn't turn myself in and the tower didn't either. I got lucky.

like 10-20 feet....maybe between the main gear...........how wide is the fuselage Boeing says 12 feet........

 

[Diesel-9]

All the information they needed is on 10-9A. A bare minimum approach briefing covers lighting, papi/vasi availability/location, navaids, length, expected turnoff, etc...especially on a runway not used in normal ops.... And this was at on of their hubs.

 

[Captain X]

If you can't do it, don't accept it...

As a rule, I don't. But thanks for the suggestion.

And for what it's worth, the word is the pilots involved filed an ASAP report which has been accepted by the ERC.

That lends me to think that everyone (company, ALPA, and FAA) agrees there are deficiencies and threats to safety at the EWR airport that could lead to any of us doing the exact same thing.