709 RIDE??? insight please!!

[bigbenno]

Has anyone ever had to take a 709 ride with the feds?

If so can you give me some insight on what it was like and what they were looking for exactly?

Thanks a million!!!

 

[chperplt]

What did you do that landed you a 709 ride??

 

[bigbenno]

I got into a heavy downdraft in a C150 and I couldnt climb out of it.. as a result the a/c hit the ground 100ft short of the rwy

 

[DashCojones]

whoops. You should just be glad that you're not strummin' a harp.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

I got into a heavy downdraft in a C150 and I couldnt climb out of it.. as a result the a/c hit the ground 100ft short of the rwy

Heavy downdraft in a C150... what is that like 500fpm?

 

[bigbenno]

unfortunately more like 1500 on short final

 

[Flechas]

Why are they giving you a 709 ride, can you appeal it showing what the WX was doing? I thing if there was a downdraft they should be happy you are alive.

 

[lear24]

From what I understand, a 709 ride is basically like taking the practical test for your license and appropriate ratings over again. I would personally study a practical test preparation book (I think ASA makes some for every license) as well as the written test book for your license. It would be a good idea to hire an instructor to get you up to practical test standards on all of the manuevers required for your license, or at least practice the manuevers on your own to ensure you're up to practical test standards. I would think with this attack you should be covered for anything they could throw at you. Good luck!

 

[bigbenno]

The feds told me that this is standard procedure, and to expect about 1.5hour oral and about an hour flight

 

[chperplt]

Good luck..


By the way... You don't need to post the same thing on every board here. It's a waste of space and the Mods will delete all but one of them.

 

[bigbenno]

thanks.... i didnt know what forum to post it in

 

[Yellow Snow]

Its a checkride. But prepare yourself for the most thorough checkride possible. I know a guy who had one to get his MEI back after he had a spin in at low altitude while single engine (his student got way too slow). His ride lasted almost five hours. It was about two hours on the oral, forty five minutes for preflight, and about two hours for the flight. Make wure your aircraft is in excellent shape. He had to reschedule his 709 after the fsdo refused to fly him on his first appointment because the TSO tags on his seatbelts were faded and couldn't be read. Trust me this is a checkride that will be truly anal.

 

[bigbenno]

great..... this just so happens to come right when i am prepairing for several interviews....

 

[LawReview]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a 609 ride? Not a 709 ride.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I thought it was 709 but I could be wrong.

Good Luck dude.....feel for ya!

 

[mrflier]

Used to be a 609...

...but was changed to section 709 when they re-indexed the original FAA authorization act.

As far as the 709, it is not always a standard procedure. If you are a CFI and were with a student, then you can expect a 709.

By the way, you do not have to take the 709 with the FSDO that is investigating the incident. You can go to any FSDO and schedule the ride.

Most importantly, if you plan on a career in aviation, I would talk with an aviation attorney. If you belong to AOPA, I think it's free (or at least available at a reduced cost).

Believe it or not, there may be some good news here. Typically, after completing the 709 (successfully), you should not face any further discipline. The FAA usually chooses between two routes: enforcement or competency. In the case of the 709, they seem to be choosing the later.

I would talk to an attorney however (to verify everything I'm telling you).

Good luck!

 

[av8tor02]

It is a 709 ride, I am a designated examiner for the FAA. Usaully performed by the FAA themselves. Good luck because it is anal. Most do fine.

 

[KPTO]

I did one several years ago for bending some metal. The 709 info is in the CFR chapter 49 which is not included in the usual GA abridged version we normally buy.

The letter you received must indicate on which certificate the 709 is being administer, ie. '' we have reason to believe that your qualifications for such are in question...". Most times the ride will concentrate on and around the event which took place and try to simulate similar conditions. A few key points:

1) Like any other checkride be prepared and willing to learn.

2) Have all the A/C paperwork in order. They are truly anal with this but, you know it anyway so just have it done.

3) The 709 is in many cases the way an inspector deals with a no fault accident or a truly stupid oversight. It gives him or her the latitude to either close the file or send you for extra training. Once the ride is administered and the ASI is satisfied in knowing you are a safe pilot ( not a reckless individual)the case is closed.


4) If they (FAA) have not temporarily deposit your certificate at their office, this being standard procedure for some FSDO, then chances are that you are doing fine. This is an option th FAA inspector has which should not be confuse with disciplinary action.

When it comes to interviews I was offered a job in all four airlines to which I applied. As the FSDO manager told me once there are those who have and those who will, the question is how bad and why.

 

[ex j-41]

709

I used to do a lot of training for the feds.
IE: they would give a "Student" to me that had a 709 ride to do and i
would have to make sure that they pass the "Ride".

The feds are not out to bust your ass. THey want you to learn from your
experience and move on. If you cannot learn from the experience then you
would find yourself in a tub of hot water.

The ride will start off with the Oral. You will be asked what it is that
happened and how you would handle it differently. You might go over
systems if that led to your incident or accident. So it would be a good idea
to go over that thick 150 POH.

The FAA would like to simulate what happened that day of the incident but
in most cases that makes it impossible. You will go out and try to do it.
After the FAA feels that you are not a menice to yourself or others you
will get a letter in the mail that states you are cleared of any wrong doing.

Don't get worried about this. The FAA does not want you to ever get
in an accident. It gives them paperwork to do. If they feel you will give
them more paperwork in the future then you have something to worry
about.

Good Luck

 

[plunger]

What happens if you screw something up due to nerves or something? Not necessarily dangerous. cant they yank all your certs?

 

[Capn Lucky]

The 709 ride is a formality and that's all. If you are a private pilot, you must fly and land to private PTS. They are no big deal. You may get quizzed on wind shear avoidance, but that's all.

Good Luck!!!! It is not a career killer if you learn from it.

 

[CEO silly sap]

great..... this just so happens to come right when i am prepairing for several interviews....

Dont worry about the interview, if you dont pass this ride the interview wont be long.

 

[Ben Franklin]

I got into a heavy downdraft in a C150 and I couldnt climb out of it.. as a result the a/c hit the ground 100ft short of the rwy

I once had a heavy downdraft in a hot air balloon. Scared the beejeezus out of me, but I remembered my instincts and all of the intense training I recieved over those 145 hours with my CBFII (certified balloon flight instructor - IFR), mustered up a huge, gigantic bean burrito fart and saved the day.

no 709 ride for me and my balloon really flies!


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[sleddriver77]

709 rides are kinda the luck of the draw on inspectors. Considering your circumstances, (the downdraft) if the inspector that decided you need a 709 ride is the one giving it, you may be in trouble. If you get another inspector who thinks it's pretty much a billshut deal, you'll be OK. I had a couple of my pilots earn 709's over the years, and they both did ok, it was treated more as a formality. If you fail it, or get a real deckhiad for an inspector, you will most likely lose every cert/rating you have. Not a HUGE deal, you'll just have to take PVT/INST/COMM/ME rides again. Get an EXAMINER for this, will cost a few bucks, but most will have some pity considering the circumstances.
What the one guy said about AOPA legal services is probably your best bet. If you can put the ride off until you've had time to talk with an aviation atty, you might be able to get out of the ride if the atty can pull a WX report showing conditions conducive to downdrafts on the day of the incident near the appropriate airport. Two people in a 150 on a hot day with a serious downdraft is something almost any NTSB judge should understand.

Good Luck, both with the situation and your upcoming interviews.

 

[Grimper]

This is from personal experance. First 709 is slang, it is a reexam of what ever the FAA investagator feels contributed to the crash. The letter you recieved should have stated the areas of the PTS that you are being re-examined in for example area iv B,D,F and so on. If you were instructing plan on teaching the areas in question. My accident was in a tail wheel while giving instruction.

I was also applying for jobs at airlines at the time of the accident. I was very forth right with the investagator for the crash and the Fed who did my check ride.

I found both inspectors to be very understanding and did what they could to help me through the process.

This is not to be taken lightly but it was the easiest of any check ride I have ever taken. Even the feds are human. They want to see is that you can fly to PTS and you are safe.

PM me if you have any other questions

 

[Regional4life]

I used to do the same thing as ex J - 41. It's just like he says. Just study up some and you should be fine. As far as the interviews go, use it as a learning experience and it becomes a good story. Good luck.

 

[CEO silly sap]

on a side note if you didnt pass your 709 then I would suggest you apply with mesa, they seem to be short of pilots

 

[airplane wizard]

Is the 709 ride on your record like a violation/accident is? How do you explain it away on a job interview?

 

[CEO silly sap]

Start with, I really want to work for mesa but I do suck as an aviator....

Now back to the 709.... um yea it was the students fault

 

[dickburns]

I had to give dual to a guy who was going up for a 709 ride after gear-upping his mooney. then I flew with him to the site to meet the fed and met him, chatted with him a lot. pm me if you want.