*************************

[h25b]

Dang guys, I may have disagreed with h25b but the only fighting I wanna do with him is whether Texas or NC has the best BBQ...

I wish you nothing but the best, as a matter of fact you remind me a lot of myself when I was leaving W. Lafayette. I wish someone had beaten me over the head with the nasty realities of the business a lot sooner. I have no capability of subtlety. Zero. Sorry.

On more important issues. While each BBQ has its unique qualities, I would have to go with NC BBQ as the best as it, like beer, is an acquired taste more suited to those with mature taste buds. As for Texas BBQ, County Line BBQ in Austin, TX has my vote for the best in Texas. I like the on-the-hill location the best.

P.S. Shrek doesn't want to mix it up with me, unlike a regional pilot I can afford the post-fight litigation....

 

[Shrek]

.... We have a winner folks!



And this is the type of behavior that gives the regional folks a bad name, and why they do not get any respect.

LOL.......and you thought I wanted physical violence........lol Some of you actually know who I am.....I don't need to beat on my chest to prove my point----------instead of hiding behind your little screen names I wanted a face to face conversation.............but ALL supporters of Gayjets are pu**ies anyways.

I knew if I even threw out the option of a meeting y'all would think such immature things instead of somebody who would meet and talk to me why you think that the TSA pilot group did NOT deserve the flying that they built. No masks......no screenames......just in your face talkin........

BUNCHA SLACK-JAWED (*&*&^*&

 

[h25b]

LOL.......and you thought I wanted physical violence........lol Some of you actually know who I am.....I don't need to beat on my chest to prove my point----------instead of hiding behind your little screen names I wanted a face to face conversation.............but ALL supporters of Gayjets are pu**ies anyways.

I knew if I even threw out the option of a meeting y'all would think such immature things instead of somebody who would meet and talk to me why you think that the TSA pilot group did NOT deserve the flying that they built. No masks......no screenames......just in your face talkin........

BUNCHA SLACK-JAWED (*&*&^*&

Why in the world do you guys think I'm a GJ supporter ?? Evidently no one can read. I've even said that they are no good for the industry. For at least the 10th time, it stinks. I just disagree on how to proceed forward. And if you'd like to meet, PM me when you're coming to central NC and I'll even buy the BBQ & beer... You may in fact be able to kick for rear physically, but I'll eat you under the table when it comes to Lexington BBQ. That's the true measure of a man. At least here in NC anyways.

You guys are worse than the NetJets pilots. LMAO...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

And this is the type of behavior that gives the regional folks a bad name, and why they do not get any respect.

Yes, it is unfortunate but true. On the contrary, it would be easy for myself to stereotype all mainline pilots as being arrogant. I refuse to do so, however, because I know that there is only a minority who have that sort of attitude. Surely you as well are capable of telling the difference without stereotyping everyone in the group.

 

[Shrek]

So.......how would you proceed then?

My daughter lives in NC and the next time I drive to go see her I will take you up on that offer.....I will PM the details when I plan on coming down.

BBQ and a beer?.......that scores points (STL BBQ SUX)

 

[h25b]

So.......how would you proceed then?

My daughter lives in NC and the next time I drive to go see her I will take you up on that offer.....I will PM the details when I plan on coming down.

BBQ and a beer?.......that scores points (STL BBQ SUX)

You're on... How to proceed? Well, for starters if you'd like to be paid and treated like professionals you all need to act like professionals. Carry on your disgust with the GJ pilots quietly while behind closed doors negotiating them out of existence or at least stapled on the bottom of your list. Don't waste your time and money on a single carrier lawsuit, if you haven't noticed ALPA could care less. Yes, this will cost you on your CBA but the Chautauqua pilots will all tell you it's money well spent. In today's environment no one can reasonably expect you're going to get something akin to what Comair is currently in the process of having to give back. In today's day in age, you need to be fighting for good healthcare and retirement almost more than payrates.

And yes the list going around does work, road to hotels with several crews who have the list and bragged about denying GJ jumpseaters. All different airlines, trust me it works...

Oh, I see... So you overheard some guys on the crew van bragging about denying GJ jumpseaters... It must be true then. From what I remember on those rides to the hotel the staff would have to hose out the inside of the vans at the end of the shifts from all of the complete B.S. that was spewed forth. I personally used to spend those rides trying to figure out whose crew had the best looking flight attendants. Best advice I can give you, please don't accept any financial advice while riding on the hotel van. And you wonder why I can't resist visiting the regionals' board, you guys are a hoot.

 

[Gorditas]

Hey everyone...long time lurker, first time poster!

I have been reading a lot on this site about GJ and it seems that almost everyone is against the airline. While there seem to be several people who are alright with them, I would like to hear more on both sides. I have the opportunity for an interview with them next week, and just would like to hear more of your thoughts. Keep in mind that I'm not really leaning one way or the other right now, so what you say will help me a lot. I really appreciate it!

purdue_pilot,

I'm sure when you gave your first few flight lessons you would have done it for free or next to nothing. How would you feel about that now? Just as I am sure that you now desire to be compensated for your time and experience, you will soon feel the same way about flying whatever equipment your future employer might have. I’m sure that you can't wait to no longer do endless stalls, steep turns, etc. However, after a few months on the line at whatever airline you happen to become employed with, you realize that you have to pay the bills, and flying is your profession. Just like when you first started instructing, the excitement dulls a little after you get a little experience under your belt.

Since you have yet to enter the airline world, let me put GJ into terms you might be more familiar with. I would assume from your credentials that you instruct at Hanger 6 or for LAI. How would you like it if tomorrow Larry G. or Jeff P. came to you and said that a new batch of instructors have gotten their licenses and will work for 2/3 of what you have been paid. All future students will go to them, but of course you are free to join them by taking a 1/3 pay cut. My guess is that you wouldn’t have to think twice about how much that sucked, and that it was fundamentally wrong for your employer to do that. At the same time, you would feel animosity towards the individuals signing up to do your job for less. Keep in mind, they are just trying to get started and are so excited to join the wonderful world of flight instructors. They can’t wait to help their students learn while building time, and anything would be more than they make flying right now. Are they really so bad for trying to get their foot in the CFI door? Please remember that this example is hypothetical, and that I haven’t researched the exact percentage difference between TSA and GJ. The concept is the same though.

Unfortunately, airline managers are always perfecting techniques that are variations of this one. Part of the problem with our industry as a whole, is that there are always more people who want a flying job, and meet the TECHNICAL qualifications to perform the job than are positions available. In a few years there will be someone willing to do your job for less than you, and the cycle will continue until it gets to a point where there are no high paying jobs left at the top. In fact, we may not be far from that point today. Five and a half years ago I was where you are. Sadly, many times this year I have thought of leaving the profession not because I no longer like flying, but what I have to put up with to get to fly has gotten out of hand. There are many times that I wish that I would have done something else for income, and bought a little airplane to fly for fun on the side. If you have kept up at all recently with what is happening in the airline industry, you know that wages, benefits, etc. have been slashed along with thousands of furloughs. So the idea of suffering for a few years at a regional to make up for it at a major is not a valid plan anymore. You might be at XYZ airline for a decade, so choose wisely.

As I said before, I was in your shoes not so long ago and realize that they teach you all about airplanes, but very little about airlines. I would highly suggest reading the book “Hard Landing.” It would even suffice for the next time you have to do a book report for some class held in LAEB. J As for Bernie, he is a great guy and as someone else said, is just trying to find jobs for graduates. In a climate like the one today, he has to send people to anywhere that is hiring. By the way, I came back to visit a while back and was shocked at how much weight he has lost. He wasn’t huge, but the tower (his wife was a controller) and Mitch would joke that any airplane that he was in became a “Heavy.” As for being blackballed because of going to GJ, it may not be a career ender, but this is an astonishingly small world we work in. Many airlines use line pilots to interview, and a few airlines I know of have a board showing who will be offered a job soon for people to comment on. No matter what decisions you make in this industry, keep those things in mind.

Gorditas

 

[Shrek]

You're on... How to proceed? Well, for starters if you'd like to be paid and treated like professionals you all need to act like professionals. Carry on your disgust with the GJ pilots quietly while behind closed doors negotiating them out of existence or at least stapled on the bottom of your list. Don't waste your time and money on a single carrier lawsuit, if you haven't noticed ALPA could care less. Yes, this will cost you on your CBA but the Chautauqua pilots will all tell you it's money well spent. In today's environment no one can reasonably expect you're going to get something akin to what Comair is currently in the process of having to give back. In today's day in age, you need to be fighting for good healthcare and retirement almost more than payrates.

Ok here is a recap.......mgt/TSA MEC were negotiating 70 seat payrates.......talks broke down when MGT at the last minute said those rates were for 70 seats AND more. A couple of months later Gayjets was born. After informational picketing got United's station managers upset......got the word to TSA management for the informational picketing to stop. The LOA proposal was a joke and unacceptable and STL flt mgrs were waving around the agreement proposal and commenting that TSA WILL shut down unless a yes vote was recieved. The new scope language in that proposal was still very weak and TSA mgt could easily get around it again in the future. The extension was for 4 years and COLA was effectively lowered over the life of that agreement. A 75% NO vote was recieved on that proposal and TSA management has since not contacted us. The TSA MEC has come back with at least one counterproposal and it has fallen on deaf ears to say the least. As I am sure you know......the single carrier petition will not solve our problems but will make the fight a little easier. The fact that gayjets are being courted by the Teamsters is because the TSA Lawyer DH is PERSONAL friends with the local Teamster union official. The few ways of doing something about our plight is being done right now.....informational picketing.....and filing the single carrier petition. We are also starting negotiations on our new contract soon and that can take up to 4 years plus so immediate help is not there either. Striking is out of the cards. We as professional pilots are following our company practices to the letter and keeping our noses clean. In the meantime we are fighting to get our two MEC officials jobs back since they were terminated on bogus claims in retaliation for this fight. They will get their jobs back eventually with backpay.

We are ready to negotiate in good faith at any time the company chooses. It just seems they are intent on their current trend of trying to intimidate our pilot group by firings, suspensions and gayjet. We are not ready to burn this company to the ground but it is hard to put on a straight face when in ORD you are told to follow "gateway" all the way to the active.

 

[Shrek]

Gorditas thx for the post.......very very true

 

[purduedchi]

Gorditas,

I possibly wouldn't have run into you at that hole in the wall Spondivits. Just wondering because I had a fliight instructor with that same nickname. Anyway, excellent post. I'm glad that someone was finally able to break this down to the level of those that it will affect.

 

[Alcatraz]

purdue_pilot:

Dude, you're a Purdue grad. You can do better than GJ! I hope the number of Purdue folks (like me) that go to GJ (I NEVER would, as long as TSA pilots say not to) stays very, very small or zero.

I was frustrated enough to hear GJ was going to be at the job fair. I heard Skyway will be there, and while they may not be the best regional to work for (if there is such a thing), they are quite decent (speaking from experience).

My reasons are similar to Gorditas (nice post).

Does Bernie still drink Coors Light? I haven't seen him in years...

 

[210FR8DOG]

Let me tell you about the cold, hard truth of the industry because, I assure you, you don't have a clue... Pilots will eat each other AND their young if it means either of these things: more airplanes, quicker upgrade, or more money...

I know of approximately 300 outstanding FOs at Trans States that refused to "eat each other AND their young" despite the opportunity of more airplanes, quicker upgrade and more money (from an FOs perspective, even the schitty Gayjets CA pay is better than FO pay) not to mention all the FOs that refused to apply from other regionals. I also know of a few that were instructors in the Oct 10 TSA class that got offered Gayjets positions and refused(way to go, guys)

I could have gone there and I'd be making about 56k right now instead of 25k. But I refuse to sell my soul for money. I would like to be a part of this industry for the next 25 years or so. Everyone is on here talking about the demise of the industry and what can we do? Well, this is a start. Bringing down Gayjets in it's current form will not solve the industries problems, but it's definitely a step in the right direction. It's in my front yard, so I'm fighting like hell. I don't know what else to do right now. Yes, I am considering getting out of flying but there are a lot of other industries having a lot of the same difficulties right now. The grass is not always greener...

 

["GO AROUND"]

Dang guys, I may have disagreed with h25b but the only fighting I wanna do with him is whether Texas or NC has the best BBQ...

That would be Texas, no doubt. Tried the BBQ in NC, mustard is for sandwiches not BBQ!

 

[Whataburger]

purdue_pilot:
I have been employed, unemployed, upgraded, downgraded, force moved, furloughed and taken multiple pay cuts since graduating Purdue. The one class they forgot to teach us is "Airline BullSh!t 101." Many of our instructors had jobs swiped right out from under them. Braniff etc. It's not going to be all roses, but the best you can do is educate yourself on any decision you make regarding your career, as you are doing here. Don't let someone talk you into or out of any decision you make. All pilots think they are the all-knowing on all subject matters. Especially ones with 4 stripes. Pilots will eat their own, management will do their best to make you work for free 32 days a month, and alpa will continue to take nearly 2% of your pay and do nothing for you even though they stroke you as much as possible and pay their dictator $400 large a year.
Regionals have been undercutting majors for years, and now regionals are being undercut, ie gjets. Now the regional pilots are mad they are getting a taste of their own medicine. I am definetly not advacating going to gjets, however I am saying you should do what YOU think is right. If you are waiting for the perfect regional job that is accepted by all pilot groups, you will be an instructor forever. Go sign up to take Gross' job when he leaves.
I personally would not consider going to gjets, however I would not worry about it affecting your career. Who gives a crap if some 23yr old TSA pilot is mad at you. Your next carrier will NOT care if you went to gjets. They look at your flight time only, and seeing you graduated from PU is always a help. PU has a fantastic reputation in the aviation industry. A few all-knowing loudmouths have at times tainted the PU rep, but fortunately those are a minority.
Finally, I had many, many pilots at my regional say I was an idiot for paying for a 737 type. They would say, "Why would you go fly a 737 your whole life flying 6-8 legs a day. You are advocating pay-for-training and doing the industry a dis-service." I did this because I wanted to work for the most secure and profitable airline in history. I have moved on with my career and many of those nay-sayers are 20 yr. Captains getting molested daily flying props at the regional level.

ps. Texas BBQ cant be beat!! A little known fact is that it was the Texans who brought beef to the new world. NC- NASCAR, yeeeeeeeehaw, go fast, turn left. Who's yur driver? Who the hell put vinegar on my brisket? SC- Did some 3yr old spill mustard on my sandwich? KC- All they have is Trent Green and Larry Johnson, BBQ? Texas- We have it all. Try Sonny Bryans next to Love Field.

 

[MD80DRVR]

Remember that many airlines (JetBlue, SWA, AirTran) post a list of prospective hire-ees on a board for everyone to look at. Next to your name, is a list of your previous employers. If the name G*Jet is next to your name, you're f**cked. There will be plenty of people running to the chief pilot to tell them what a spineless mofo you are. Don't take a job a G*Jet, it'll ruin you and your career!

 

[Economy101]

Regionals have been undercutting majors for years, and now regionals are being undercut, ie gjets. Now the regional pilots are mad they are getting a taste of their own medicine. Who gives a crap if some 23yr old TSA pilot is mad at you. Your next carrier will NOT care if you went to gjets. They look at your flight time only, and seeing you graduated from PU is always a help.

Whataburger....are you serious. What the helll rock did you crawl out from under? Regionals started to serve cities that coudn't be served by larger aircraft, then later they did begin undercutting majors, but only in the weaker markets. Yes the role regionals played has really evolved, but this problem could have been dealt with decades ago. Unions...mainly ALPA...could have pushed majors to buy the regional a/c at the time and set up pay rates to keep all those jobs in the major airlines. ALPA probably forsaw this problem but they just didn't care enough or didn't think it would have as much influence on the aviation industry as it actually did! I work at TSA a regional airline and I'm the first to tell you that it shouldn't exist, but it does and it has for decades! In Europe carriers like Alitalia hire a pilot and he starts in a dash 8 moves to an rj, then a md-80 and so on...up to their widebody aircraft. That is the way it should be here in the US. But the way it is now, Regionals and Majors are in two completely different tiers. As a pilot starts out they will build more and more time to where they can qualify to move up anther tier, eventually getting the job they always wanted or the the top tier major airline. That's the way the system is set up here in the US. What GJ is doing as another regional carrier (the same company i might add as TSA) to the entire regional tier is undercutting my job at TSA and other regional jobs on the same tier, not to mention they are taking a job I earned as TSA employee, busting my azz for this company. A pilot could easily apply for TSA and start out the same way I did, not build on a union-busting company taking food off my family's table.

The second part of your post stating not to care about if some 23yr old pilot is mad at you. FUCH U! I wish I was still 23, but I'm not, and if you think you're more self righteous because you're older and wiser you got another thing coming. I have more respect for the 23 yr old that is taking the correct path than the most senior Piece of S*** CPT at GJ. That 23 yr old might later be sitting on your hiring board, then I'd bet you didn't want to piss him off! And if you think that other airlines don't know about the GJ pilots and won't prevent them from getting work elswhere you wrong! There will and have already been hiring problems for people that work at GJ currently and few that have already realized how bad the company is and left still trying to get work elsewhere. Flight time may or may not get you through the interview door. But in the airlines, it's about who you know and what they know about you! And knowing you worked at GJ is bad business!!!

 

[TIGV]

Alpa is the best ! Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Whataburger]

"In Europe carriers like Alitalia hire a pilot and he starts in a dash 8 moves to an rj, then a md-80 and so on...up to their widebody aircraft. That is the way it should be here in the US."

I agree with you here, but unfortunately I don't believe we will ever see that here in the United States. Back when the opportunity was there, the mainline pilots/companies did not have the forsight to consolidate their wholly owned regionals and buy regional jets/turboprops for themselves - mainline pilots dont fly "small jets." Instead they decided to farm-out the regional jet flying to the lowest bidder (ie TSA). In addition, if ALPA wanted to work on this problem, they could. Once hired at a company, a pilot should get a seniority number that he/she will have for the rest of their avation career. Not happening.

"I wish I was still 23, but I'm not, and if you think you're more self righteous because your older and wiser you got another thing coming."

This was never stated or intended. Just passing-on my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. Sorry you don't like it. Plus, it's "you're older" not "your older."

Could you please give me an example of someone not getting a job solely because he/she worked at gjets? Then I will stand corrected.

 

[flyer172r]

Go sign up to take Gross' job when he leaves.

That won't work, Gross is never leaving.

 

[Whataburger]

Does he still say "behoove" all the time? As in, it will behoove you to go to Harry's at noon, sit in the fishbowl, and leave at bartime.

 

[FirstMate]

That would be Texas, no doubt. Tried the BBQ in NC, mustard is for sandwiches not BBQ!

Since when did we start putting mustard on our BBQ? I've lived here in NC for over 20 years and have yet to see such a thing...

 

[100LL... Again!]

Being a gjet pilot will likely never harm anyone's career.

ALPA forgave an airline full of real scabs just to get them back into the fold.

Rant all you like, it ain't gonna change a thing.

 

[purdue_pilot]

Thanks for everyone's input on this....I just called to turn down the interview. Time to start sending out more resumes I guess!!

 

[millhouse21]

Thanks for everyone's input on this....I just called to turn down the interview. Time to start sending out more resumes I guess!!

purdue_pilot,
On behalf of all the pilots at Trans States, thank you for your decision to not pursue a job at Go Jet. I know from personal experience how hard it is to be on the outside looking in. To give up your first airline interview really says something. I don't really agree with all the guys who say that your career will suffer if you go to Go Jet since that is clearly false. I wish it were true but it is not. However, you have made a good decision that reflects well on your judgement and personal integrity. It is a little sobering to think that you made such a big decision based on what a few of us said. I really wish you the best of luck in your job search. Thanks again,

 

[Shrek]

Whataburger........ " Plus, it's "you're older" not "your older."

It's TOOLBOX not just TOOL.

 

[Shrek]

Hey h25b after reading my post you seem earily absent from the thread.......what should we do oh 91/135 guy?!

 

[h25b]

Hey h25b after reading my post you seem earily absent from the thread.......what should we do oh 91/135 guy?!

I thought we'd just wait to discuss it over the beer and BBQ. It's on me, don't forget... Hold on let me go read it and see what you said...:laugh:

Ok here is a recap.......mgt/TSA MEC were negotiating 70 seat payrates.......talks broke down when MGT at the last minute said those rates were for 70 seats AND more. A couple of months later Gayjets was born. After informational picketing got United's station managers upset......got the word to TSA management for the informational picketing to stop. The LOA proposal was a joke and unacceptable and STL flt mgrs were waving around the agreement proposal and commenting that TSA WILL shut down unless a yes vote was recieved. The new scope language in that proposal was still very weak and TSA mgt could easily get around it again in the future. The extension was for 4 years and COLA was effectively lowered over the life of that agreement. A 75% NO vote was recieved on that proposal and TSA management has since not contacted us. The TSA MEC has come back with at least one counterproposal and it has fallen on deaf ears to say the least. As I am sure you know......the single carrier petition will not solve our problems but will make the fight a little easier. The fact that gayjets are being courted by the Teamsters is because the TSA Lawyer DH is PERSONAL friends with the local Teamster union official. The few ways of doing something about our plight is being done right now.....informational picketing.....and filing the single carrier petition. We are also starting negotiations on our new contract soon and that can take up to 4 years plus so immediate help is not there either. Striking is out of the cards. We as professional pilots are following our company practices to the letter and keeping our noses clean. In the meantime we are fighting to get our two MEC officials jobs back since they were terminated on bogus claims in retaliation for this fight. They will get their jobs back eventually with backpay.

We are ready to negotiate in good faith at any time the company chooses. It just seems they are intent on their current trend of trying to intimidate our pilot group by firings, suspensions and gayjet. We are not ready to burn this company to the ground but it is hard to put on a straight face when in ORD you are told to follow "gateway" all the way to the active.

Thanks for running it down and I appreciate your taking the time. What else can I say other than it's a tough position to be in ? I think the crux of my arguement is the fact that while taking the energy to bash and humiliate the GJ pilots may yield a certain amount of personal pleasure, it's ultimately a waste of your breath. In today's world of the NMB, you might as well forget getting too upset about anything until things get serious about a strike release. The only thing that will bring them back to the table will be the threat of real monetary loss (i.e. strike)...

Look at the NetJets situation. Something was/is going on behind the scenes to bring the management to the table. I'll also wager that whatever it was will make that TA not look so great after it's ratified. Bottom line, I don't profess to know all the answers from here forward. I just won't let someone convince me that what little you're doing now is going to help.

 

[TIGV]

:angryfire Second they get a Union they're getting my resume.

 

[Tram]

Thanks for everyone's input on this....I just called to turn down the interview. Time to start sending out more resumes I guess!!

Wow.. good call. You just saved your career...