*************************

purdue_pilot

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Posts
10
Total Time
3000+
Hey everyone...long time lurker, first time poster! ;)

I have been reading a lot on this site about GJ and it seems that almost everyone is against the airline. While there seem to be several people who are alright with them, I would like to hear more on both sides. I have the opportunity for an interview with them next week, and just would like to hear more of your thoughts. Keep in mind that I'm not really leaning one way or the other right now, so what you say will help me a lot. I really appreciate it! :)
 

MarineGrunt

Will kill for peace.
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Posts
1,854
Total Time
G 2/24
Well, regardless of the pro's/con's, I'm going to stay far far away. I haven't been working in the industry yet, so I don't know the issues, but there seems to be enough anti-GJ people out there that taking a job with them could be pretty harmful to a long term career.... just a thought.......
 

millhouse21

No longer in the Sand Box
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Posts
445
Total Time
3900
Regardless of what you think about Hojet pilots being scabs, scumbags, etc, or about the unionbusting effort in general, it's worth realizing that TSA is a crappy company. We have poor work rules, an old contract, and mgmt that fails to abide by the few protections afforded by that contract. You may be about to work for this company without ANY protections whatsoever and there is the distinct possibility that the company will reach an agreement with ALPA and will push you under the bus. We all have to make decisions in life and it looks like you are about to make a big one. Good luck.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
For the love of God man, do NOT take the interview with them.

1. Go Jet is a direct threat to the career expectations of Trans States pilots, many of whom are Purdue graduates from 99-05. TSA management could have awarded Go Jet flying to TSA ALPA pilots, the same ones who helped make the profits that started Go Jet in the first place. Instead they started it with a seperate seniority list. Go Jet has and will be whipsawed against Trans States to lower the already marginal contract at TSA. Do you want to be apart of that? Can you look your older friends and former flight instructors in the eye after stabbing them in the back by working for their enemy?

2. As a Go Jet pilot, your name will go on a list, and at this point in your career, you do not want that. Will it hurt you career-wise? Maybe, maybe not, but do you want to risk it? Do you know what Freedom A is? If not, do a search.

3. ASA is interviewing pilots at Purdue TODAY at the Career Fair, and offering trips to ATL to interview for those who do well. Skyway is also at Purdue today. PSA, Regions Air, AirNet, Expressjet, American Eagle, Air Cargo Carriers, etc have been hiring recently. Why are you even considering GJ?

I don't mean to come off crass, but PLEASE PM me or flyer172r for more information. We are recent grads that will get you informed. Don't let Bernie talk you into it, don't go fly a CRJ-700 for less than what TSA pilots currently make on an antiquated contract, don't do it period.
 

h25b

Left for ProPilotWorld
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Posts
1,829
Total Time
.....
As a Purdue grad. that's been around the block a bit further than BoilerUP (who I submit has very little, if any real-world industry experience), I can't say for sure either way. But hey, evidently he's a mighty Purdue Beechjet pilot so I'm sure he thinks he knows everything since he's been to FlightSafety ONCE. I'd probably try to get on elsewhere, go to as many interviews as you can get invited to and then make your decision if/when an offer comes up. Going to the interview won't hurt you.

I know there's at least one Purdue grad at GJ that evidently thought American Eagle was a worse a$$ whipping than working at GJ...

They might as well wipe their rear end with that "list" they're talking about, that's about as useful as it will ever be...:rolleyes:

P.S. The comment BoilerUP makes about not listening to Bernie speaks volumes about his ignorance. There are scores of CHQ pilots in the top 200 of their seniority list that are pretty happy they "listened to Bernie" ... People were saying the same thing when he started the Chautauqua bridge program. Proves he doesn't know what the heck he's talking about...
 
Last edited:

SkywayFO

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Posts
207
Total Time
Enough
I say take the interview for practice purposes. Then when they offer you the job tell them to go to hell. Use the practice interview to help you get a better job. Especially if it is your first time around.
 

SkyBoy1981

Bring a towel!
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Posts
1,482
Total Time
5000
h25b said:
As a Purdue grad. that's been around the black a bit further than BoilerUP
Is this a racial statement or do you have a New England accent? :eek: :D
 

h25b

Left for ProPilotWorld
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Posts
1,829
Total Time
.....
SkyBoy1981 said:
Is this a racial statement or do you have a New England accent? :eek: :D
Actually, I was editing that as you were pointing it out. My wife's New York accent is rubbing off. :D
 

J32driver

Strokin it...
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Posts
716
Total Time
8000+
Ever want to ride a jumpseat on an ALPA carrier? I'd look elsewhere for employment.

Again... if a HOJET pilot was on fire, I wouldn't P I S S on him to put him out!
 

purdue_pilot

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Posts
10
Total Time
3000+
Well, that didn't take too much convincing...I just got done talking to a sim instructor friend of mine and he summed it all up by saying this "Its all about integrity..." Even though GJ looks on paper that it is a great gig...I can't see myself there....guess i'll be sticking it out as a flight instructor a bit longer :(
 

Heavy Set

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Posts
2,277
Total Time
15,000
SkywayFO said:
I say take the interview for practice purposes. Then when they offer you the job tell them to go to hell. Use the practice interview to help you get a better job. Especially if it is your first time around.
I agree with SkywayFO. Go for the interview but please, please, please do not ruin your career (I am serious when I say that) by accepting a job with Hojet. You can fly a CR7 somewhere else and still have a career in the future. Don't make a huge mistake you will most certainly REGRET...
 

pilotkppsg

Frattastic
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
225
Total Time
6K
purdue_pilot said:
Well, that didn't take too much convincing...I just got done talking to a sim instructor friend of mine and he summed it all up by saying this "Its all about integrity..." Even though GJ looks on paper that it is a great gig...I can't see myself there....guess i'll be sticking it out as a flight instructor a bit longer :(
Wise choice man, you're doing the right thing even though you know you want outta that piper ASAP. It'll happen man, don't get down and send your stuff out to ASA and XJT. I start training in Dec. down there in IAH and I absolutely loved it. Just stick it out a bit longer man, it'll happen and when it does you can go to a much better place than you know where.
 

Redmeat

People Mover
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Posts
641
Total Time
Ubecha
J32driver said:
Ever want to ride a jumpseat on an ALPA carrier? I'd look elsewhere for employment.
I'm not condoning alter-ego outfits,

but give me a break.

Trust me when I say that most mainline guys don't have the faintest clue who GJ's is.

Didn't that become perfectly clear with the recent US Airways MEC code-a-phone?

h25b is right, that so called list is a farce. It is meaningless.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
h25b

Why do you feel the need for ad hominum attacks? You spend your entire post blasting me and only a few lines expanding upon my argument. Conveniently enough, you got so wrapped up in beating up on me you didn't even address the threat Go Jet poses to Trans States pilots.

I've never claimed to know everything, or to be some mighty Beechjet pilot, or anything like the BS you just spewed. I've got lots of friends at TSA that are affected by Go Jet. I declined a job offer at TSA for that among other reasons. He asked for advice and I gave him mine, and its worth what he paid for it - NOTHING. I'm the first to admit I know less than many, but I probably know more than you'd ever give me credit for. You don't know anything about my industry experience, where I've been or what I've done other than what I have in my profile or said on this board. You've got more experience than me because you've been around longer than me, and that's great! You've been a wonderful contributor to this board, with both 91 and 121 experience, but you've admittedly been out of the 121 world for a while yet you post like you have authority on this issue. You never challenged my assertion on another thread that corporate pilots wail when they get lowballed but then they turn around and tell airline pilots to suck it up when the same thing happens to them. Why is that?

Bernie was my ME instructor, he's given many of my students checkrides, and he's helped me get interviews for both internships and jobs by giving stellar recommendations. I've got nothing against Bernie, in fact I like him quite a bit and talked to him on the phone last week. BW's job to get students and grads opportunities within aviation (he started the program with TSA last year), and thats exactly what Go Jet is - an opportunity. He's told me personally (along with many of the other alums that have complained) that its not his responsibility to make the final decision about accepting employment, its that of the applicant. That is very true! However, its my job to help educate my friends and fellow alums about the hard truth of the industry, which the professors generally don't explore and is difficult to learn in the academic environment.

So yeah, I'll admit, I have less real-world industry experience than you. I'll even acquiesce to your superior intellect, experience and knowlege. But it doesn't take real-world industry experience to have some integrity and a sense of right and wrong, now does it?
 

h25b

Left for ProPilotWorld
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Posts
1,829
Total Time
.....
BoilerUP said:
Bernie was my ME instructor,
Mine too..

BoilerUP said:
However, its my job to help educate my friends and fellow alums about the hard truth of the industry, which the professors generally don't explore and is difficult to learn in the academic environment.
Let me tell you about the cold, hard truth of the industry because, I assure you, you don't have a clue... Pilots will eat each other AND their young if it means either of these things: more airplanes, quicker upgrade, or more money... The TSA pilots are in the same mess that we were in at CHQ. It's clear that their current CBA doesn't prohibit GJ operations so their only choice is to scope them out in their next contract.

BoilerUP said:
But it doesn't take real-world industry experience to have some integrity and a sense of right and wrong, now does it?
Once you get out in to the real world you'll soon adjust your opinion about what is right and wrong. Especially when you have a wife and kids to take care of. I don't condone crossing any picket lines, but that isn't what is going on here... Not even close. Please don't assert that I have a double standard when chiming in on corporate and airline pilot career development. These are two completely different animals and a pilot treading down either road should have completely different expectations. A pilot looking to start at a Fortune 500 Hawker for example should expect about 50-60K while if you choose to be an airline pilot you should expect to be paid about 20-25 bucks/hr. to start in the right seat of an RJ. The devil in the details is that the prospective corporate pilot paid his dues elsewhere before even being considered, while the "regionals" are bringing in you guys with little more than a Commercial ticket with instrument and multi-engine ratings. There's no double standard there, that's just reality.

This fact remains that the arguement that you love to make that going to work at GJ is some career ending/ruining act is disingenuous at best. You admittedly have no experience that would tell you this... I challenge you to find anywhere that I claim that GJ and its kind are good for the industry. Yep, you're right, GJ is a threat to the TSA chances of a somewhat better contract. But ignoring the fact that it's a LEGAL manuever on the part of Trans States' management won't win any points. Running around in circles whining about it doesn't cut it either. If this is the worst thing you see happen in this business you've had a great career, believe me... I've seen a person lose their job for things completely out of their control and commit suicide as a result. So excuse me if I could give a squat about whether a guy wants to work at GJ...:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

J32driver

Strokin it...
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Posts
716
Total Time
8000+
Redmeat said:
Didn't that become perfectly clear with the recent US Airways MEC code-a-phone?
That code-a-phone may have been a good thing for ALPA. The MEC that put that out looks squarely like an idiot now. Maybe these clowns will try and educate themselves on the industry around them now.
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
Joined
Nov 11, 2003
Posts
5,311
Total Time
1500+
h25b said:
So excuse me if I could give a squat about whether a guy wants to work at GJ...:rolleyes:
I wouldn't expect you to...its not your sandbox.

As a Fortune 500 Hawker pilot, you expect $50-60K. You've paid your dues flying Barons at night, KAs and Lears and Citations on call 135, and finally moved up to that dream job (or at least a few rungs up). You know your worth is $50-60K, and you aren't willing to fly for less. Now lets say somebody you know flew a clapped out 501 for a cruddy owner-operator and essentialy had the same qualifications as you, but was making $38K with no benefits. If he accepted $40K plus good benefits at the same Fortune 500 job as you, doesn't that affect everybody's negotiating power when it comes time for a raise? Anybody who would do that is a fool, but we both know there are people out there that intentionally low-ball their pay to get experience or time, and it happens at every level, 91, 121 and 135.

Go Jet really isn't different than that. As a 5th year 50 seat captain, one expects their worth to be, say 65K when they make 58, but thats the CBA so thats what they get. To fly a 70 seat jet, that same captain will accept nothing less than what he or she feels their worth is, in this case 65K minimum. Somebody else (a FO making 32K who feels their upgrade is past due) is will take that 70 seat job for 59K.

Go Jet is being grown through a loophole in the TSA CBA. Yes, it is techinally legal but its not ethical, and yes I know that the world is ruthless and people look out for themselves and all that other stuff my father told me when I left for college. TSA could have scoped Go Jet flying, but turned it down recently by declining an industry-worst contract extenstion. Those planes weren't worth that contract. Some may say TSA pilots made their decision then, but I say they simply knew their worth, and weren't willing to accept anything less. The Single Carrier Petition will decide this finally and for all soon.

Will GJ ruin somebody's career? Nah, probably not. Never stopped the Freedom A people, now did it? But unless a group takes a hard stand and fights a hard fight, the regional industry will continue to become an even worse joke than it currently is. TSA is in that hard fight right now, and for the sake of my career, my school's alumni, and everybody else, I certainly hope they win.
 

Fblowjets

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Posts
150
Total Time
5600
h25b is a waste of air. If your not in the industry (121) then you have no room to talk about us at TSA. Sorry you think you have real world experience and you THINK you are qualified to discuss this issue, but bottom line is your not. Go hangout on the corporate forum and talk about FBO's or something you might know about. Sorry for the bashing, but I am tired of you bashing my fellow AIRLINE pilots. And yes the list going around does work, road to hotels with several crews who have the list and bragged about denying GJ jumpseaters. All different airlines, trust me it works...
 

SkyBoy1981

Bring a towel!
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Posts
1,482
Total Time
5000
BoilerUP said:
As a Fortune 500 Hawker pilot, you expect $50-60K. You've paid your dues flying Barons at night, KAs and Lears and Citations on call 135, and finally moved up to that dream job (or at least a few rungs up). You know your worth is $50-60K, and you aren't willing to fly for less.
If he's a Fortune 500 Hawker Captain, I certainly hope that he knows he's worth a hell of a lot more than 50-60k. If thats all a job like that is paying now a days, I'm glad I got the hell out of corporate. :)
 

labbats

Zulu who?
Joined
May 25, 2003
Posts
2,593
Total Time
9000
purdue_pilot said:
Well, that didn't take too much convincing...I just got done talking to a sim instructor friend of mine and he summed it all up by saying this "Its all about integrity..." Even though GJ looks on paper that it is a great gig...I can't see myself there....guess i'll be sticking it out as a flight instructor a bit longer :(
You have a wise sim instructor. While it's easy for many of us to say to wait, I know that's about one of the hardest things to ask someone making minimum wage as a flight instructor. But while some people go way overboard on this *************************s thing, make no mistake about it... it's a bad scene. You're a better person for avoiding a lousy operator, whether it's part 121 or 135.
 
Top