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50-seat jets -- End of an Era

Whataburger

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Forgot to put language to prevent it? There were limits on numbers of the larger RJs, but BK did have a hand in increasing the size of the RJs from 70 to 76 seats. I don't remember anyone in favor of that, excpet management and the BK judge. And that FANTASTIC contract helped your own wages, something you guys deny but know is true.


Bye Bye---General Lee

BK, you mean the threat of 1113c in which YOU voted to shread your contract and reduce pay? What about the smaller RJs, how did you allow hundreds of them?

Yes we have Volaris. We have in our contract: NO DOMESTIC CODESHARE period.

Yes, thank you for the FANTASTIC pay. I think of GENERAL CHEESE EVERY 5TH AND 20TH!!!!! And our 2nd year FO's think, "Dang, I make tons more than a Delta 4th year FO.
 

HA25

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BK, you mean the threat of 1113c in which YOU voted to shread your contract and reduce pay? What about the smaller RJs, how did you allow hundreds of them?

Yes we have Volaris. We have in our contract: NO DOMESTIC CODESHARE period.

Yes, thank you for the FANTASTIC pay. I think of GENERAL CHEESE EVERY 5TH AND 20TH!!!!! And our 2nd year FO's think, "Dang, I make tons more than a Delta 4th year FO.

What's sad ladies and gentleman is this guy is 100% right... Southwest, the company that was "Dragging" everyone down in the 90's is now setting the bar and the ALPA carriers like DAL, UAL and USAir are the one's in panic and selling away every gain they have made in their contracts over 50 years for meager pennies an hour in raises... They tricked you into voting in close to 50% in pay cuts... bringing your wages down below many 2nd tier ACMI carriers like Atlas, and even Kalitta, and then in a classic pincer movement, they're taking away any career growth for you by farming out your flying to the lowest bidder via scope..

Don't pat yourself too hard n the back, you have a lot of work to do to get to where your ancestors got you to in 2000.... a lot!
 

redflyer65

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Delta has, in the recent past, had AT LEAST 600 delta connection aircraft.

That's easily more than the 525 planes even Southwest has...

Let's see...

The handful of flights Volaris does while SW flies 3500 flights a day, or..


The thousands of flights the Delta Connection carriers fly everyday for the Delta Doublebreasted sky gods...

Not even worth comparing...sorry.
 

General Lee

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BK, you mean the threat of 1113c in which YOU voted to shread your contract and reduce pay? What about the smaller RJs, how did you allow hundreds of them?

Yes we have Volaris. We have in our contract: NO DOMESTIC CODESHARE period.

Yes, thank you for the FANTASTIC pay. I think of GENERAL CHEESE EVERY 5TH AND 20TH!!!!! And our 2nd year FO's think, "Dang, I make tons more than a Delta 4th year FO.

Like we had a choice, with a gun to our heads! When a BK judge sides with the company, you pretty much have NO choice. Hopefully you guys never have to go through that, and it sure wasn't fun at all. But, you should be THANKING us for get the rates up that high for your own contract, because if ours weren't that high, you wouldn't have had a chance to ask for it. Now that things are better, we are trying to use your rates to jump back to close to where we were.

The interesting thing will be when our rates do match and go higher than yours eventually, how many of your guys bail out to finally get some variety in flying and airplane type, and to stop doing West Texas flying. It will be a mass exodus, and the horror stories from SWA refugees will be interesting to hear. I can't wait.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee

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What's sad ladies and gentleman is this guy is 100% right... Southwest, the company that was "Dragging" everyone down in the 90's is now setting the bar and the ALPA carriers like DAL, UAL and USAir are the one's in panic and selling away every gain they have made in their contracts over 50 years for meager pennies an hour in raises... They tricked you into voting in close to 50% in pay cuts... bringing your wages down below many 2nd tier ACMI carriers like Atlas, and even Kalitta, and then in a classic pincer movement, they're taking away any career growth for you by farming out your flying to the lowest bidder via scope..

Don't pat yourself too hard n the back, you have a lot of work to do to get to where your ancestors got you to in 2000.... a lot!

They tricked us by actually going BK? Really? It was a trick? Delta almost got snagged by USAir in BK. Was that all part of the plan? BK isn't fun for anyone except BK lawyers. Some of what was lost in BK was regained in the joint contract with NWA, a 17% gain in 4 years, which doesn't make up for the 47% pay cut, but helped a bit. Now Delta could be looking at more airlines to merge with while cleaning up the balance sheet, so there is some leverage there when it comes to the new contract. Both the VP of flt ops and even the CEO said they want it done on the ammendable date. There has to be a reason for that.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Delta has, in the recent past, had AT LEAST 600 delta connection aircraft.

That's easily more than the 525 planes even Southwest has...

Let's see...

The handful of flights Volaris does while SW flies 3500 flights a day, or..


The thousands of flights the Delta Connection carriers fly everyday for the Delta Doublebreasted sky gods...

Not even worth comparing...sorry.

Comair will be down to 44 planes next year. No more E135s flying for DL out of CVG. The Saabs are going away. ASA shifted a bunch of planes to UAL. The DCI fleet is shrinking, and that is a great trend. All of the DCI planes can't just go away in one day, so a draw down like this is not bad.

You will do the same with your 717 flying too, so get used to it. And Volaris LUVS you guys, and I haven't seen that contract get shredded yet.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

airplane wizard

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Maybe as fuel goes up, more of the flying will com back to the majors. It won't be cost effective to fly anything that has less than 120 seats. And lots of the smaller cities will not have airline service.
 

Whataburger

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The interesting thing will be when our rates do match and go higher than yours eventually, how many of your guys bail out to finally get some variety in flying and airplane type, and to stop doing West Texas flying. It will be a mass exodus, and the horror stories from SWA refugees will be interesting to hear. I can't wait.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Standing by.

ps. I do give you props for capitalizing "West Texas."
 

Fubijaakr

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Maybe as fuel goes up, more of the flying will com back to the majors. It won't be cost effective to fly anything that has less than 120 seats. And lots of the smaller cities will not have airline service.

Well, they won't have FREQUENT airline service. One or two trips a day vs. 5 or 6. The upside is for every RJ NOT flying into hub airports one slot opens for mainline sized aircraft.
 

General Lee

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Standing by.

ps. I do give you props for capitalizing "West Texas."

No, West Texas flying is all yours. We'll compete with you on the rest of the domestic front, and then we'll go for Asia, South America, Europe, and your favorite, Africa.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Freebrd

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Both the VP of flt ops and even the CEO said they want it done on the ammendable date. There has to be a reason for that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yeah right JennyLeigh! Cause they said so right? This proves you're not even an airline pilot! Maybe a wide body FA then? You said you fly the 76 right, but as a FA!
 

HA25

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Like we had a choice, with a gun to our heads! When a BK judge sides with the company, you pretty much have NO choice.


Bye Bye---General Lee

watch how the American guys do it and take notes....
 

redflyer65

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Comair will be down to 44 planes next year. No more E135s flying for DL out of CVG. The Saabs are going away. ASA shifted a bunch of planes to UAL. The DCI fleet is shrinking, and that is a great trend. All of the DCI planes can't just go away in one day, so a draw down like this is not bad.

You will do the same with your 717 flying too, so get used to it. And Volaris LUVS you guys, and I haven't seen that contract get shredded yet.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not even close Genital. Zero domestic codeshare or 'outsourcing' with RJ's vs what Delta does.... Not even the same ballpark.

Good luck getting your payrates up in this environment.
 

FLYLOW22

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Scope can be erroded in BAD TIMES. Delta has had record profits, and there are no signs of any impending BK. That means you are wrong. Also, there have been NO props ordered for US Regionals at any of the latest trade shows like the Paris Airshow, Dubai, etc. That would have been a perfect time to do it, yet it didn't happen. The Regionals are HOPING Scope will errode before they do it, and it hasn't yet. The UAL/CAL guys are fired up too about scope, along with the APA. Not looking good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Patience. This will take a couple years.

In the meantime, scope is FUBAR.
 

uba757

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Scope can be erroded in BAD TIMES. Delta has had record profits, and there are no signs of any impending BK. That means you are wrong. Also, there have been NO props ordered for US Regionals at any of the latest trade shows like the Paris Airshow, Dubai, etc. That would have been a perfect time to do it, yet it didn't happen. The Regionals are HOPING Scope will errode before they do it, and it hasn't yet. The UAL/CAL guys are fired up too about scope, along with the APA. Not looking good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You are right, hopefully another pilot group will have the BALLS none of you DALPA boys had back in the day! DAL's BK was back in 2006, by that time there were already hundreds of RJ's flying under the Delta name, you boys sold out years before BK!
 

HA25

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You are right, hopefully another pilot group will have the BALLS none of you DALPA boys had back in the day! DAL's BK was back in 2006, by that time there were already hundreds of RJ's flying under the Delta name, you boys sold out years before BK!

amen to that!
 

HalinTexas

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Then again, APA could be like DALPA in 1996 and really screw it up. That was the year that they did NOT scope in the RJs at Comair. They didn't want to fly them, we were told. APA and CALPA quickly followed. They did get to offer offline jumpseating that year.

BTW, TWA's scope had a speed limit. Everything faster than 300 or 350 kts. had to fly on their cert.
 

General Lee

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watch how the American guys do it and take notes....

We were already in BK! When the judge is there, it is a different story. Take notes.....riiiight. The pension laws have changed since then, which was a big reason Delta went BK so fast. 2000 Captains left within a year, and all took money with them. AA hasn't had that big of a problem, and the pensions just can't be taken either now. Take notes.......Don't you have to get back to ICN?


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee

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You are right, hopefully another pilot group will have the BALLS none of you DALPA boys had back in the day! DAL's BK was back in 2006, by that time there were already hundreds of RJ's flying under the Delta name, you boys sold out years before BK!

The guys that sold out also were allowed an early out in 96. 500 Senior Captains were allowed an early out with that. I came in after that (500 senior Captains leaving created a lot of hiring). Those guys that left allowed for a C-Scale (Delta Express 732s out of MCO), and allowed RJs, and then left early with full pensions.

Stay in the desert, it will eventually suck for you.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

General Lee

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Not even close Genital. Zero domestic codeshare or 'outsourcing' with RJ's vs what Delta does.... Not even the same ballpark.

Good luck getting your payrates up in this environment.

Payrates will go up, thanks to billions in profits in the last 2 years over here. (unlike you guys, that last quarter stung....) And, with management possibly eyeing more aquisitions, it gets better. I think we are aiming for at least your rates, and even if we get close, it will be better than flying your junky 737s to West Texas. BORING! I still think most of our planes will pay better than yours. We'll see, but the environment for us has been very profitable. You guys.....um....not so much.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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