3M flight dept

[Gulfstream 200]

oh thats bad.

should have taken the train.

 

[banned username 2]

Heck, the G550 with 6,750 NM range isn't enough for our trips!!!! We would still have to stop for go-go juice!!

Yeah, no kidding... besides that we'd need a "refill" on the catering by then!

 

[JetPilot500]

Yeah, no kidding... besides that we'd need a "refill" on the catering by then!

Yeah, 18 hour old catering would be quite DISGUSTING!

 

[GVFlyer]

Miscellaneous ramblings

THIS was my biggest disappointment when I read about the Global Express XRS. Kinda like when Falcon came out with the Falcon 2000EX, I was like "Where are the inboard leading edge slats??? You guys go through an entire certification process and don't add inboard leading edge slats to this plane??? Some Frenchman needs a serious ass-whoopin'!!!"

The XRS has serious specific fuel consumption problems. Additional thrust equals additional fuel burn which would exacerbate this problem - even with the improved fuel specifics of the new engine. The Globals have a time limited amount of additional thrust for climb. The G550 uses the extra 1270lbs of thrust for take-off and climb - to quickly get to the altitudes which minimize fuel burn. In cruise you are pulling it back.

OK, NOW I am scared... I am complimenting Gulfstream and you are complimenting Falcon... There must be some weird Lunar activity going on, I hope all the costal cities along the Pacific have their Tsunami flags waving!

I think it's the tides, sun spots, phases of the moon and Harmonic Convergence.

... That extra 1,000 NM range (6,700 vs. 5,700 NM) would help a lot, and even take out the "seat sucking, pucker factor" on some of the shorter legs...

I know exactly what you mean. After some record flights in the old GV demonstrator - sn 502, which was over 1500 Production Change Orders away from being a real GV (it had been the stress test airplane and had short non- flying pylons, a non-sculpted high drag cockpit roof, bad fuel specific - A engines, draggy wings, low capacity fuel cells and so forth), I have had the press approach me and ask, "How much fuel did you have after landing?" and I have truthfully replied, "Oh, I had a ton of fuel!" NBAA fuel reserves for the GV is 2860lbs.

GV

 

[Northern Lights]

5 GV's and they do numerous trips a year to a resort up in northern MN somewhere. Go VFR sometimes.

Gotta be fun, VFR in a GV for 150 miles or so...

I remember summer 2000, I was taking a student on an IFR training flight from STP to BRD (Brainerd) about 80nm north of STP. As we're preflighting we see the 3M hanger open up and they pulled out 4 of the jets. About half way to BRD, those jets all started passing us, also going in to Brainerd. It got to be quite a mess once we got there, since they were dropping the pax off and returning to STP. Being an uncontrolled airport it is one in/one out, and we had 7 planes trying to get in that day (4 GV's, us, a Mesaba and a cessna)The center controller was thrilled when he recieved our cancellation! VFR was easier that day.

I had a NWA pilot mention that he'd be glad to give up his seat there to fly for 3M.

 

[Valkyrie]

GV Flyer, are you a Gulfstream Salesman?

One of the first Global Express was sold 29.75M$
Wasn't it a good deal?

A US company had a Global Express for the price of a new GIV.
Looks like another good deal.

Global's main advantages are cabin width and market depreciation...

 

[rice]

MGTOW

Yeah, no kidding... besides that we'd need a "refill" on the catering by then!

Hope you guys are ordering from the new Atkins friendly menu.

 

[fokkerjet]

Hey GVFlyer

What's the type rating situation for the "new" Gulfstreams? Will I be able to fly the G450 and G550 with my GIV and GV type (after differences training) or do I need a new type rating? Also, if someone new to the aircraft trains exclusively to either the G450 or G550, are they rewarded with a type rating that is common to both new models?

Have you turned 501 into a beer can yet

 

[GVFlyer]

GV Flyer, are you a Gulfstream Salesman?

No.

One of the first Global Express was sold 29.75M$
Wasn't it a good deal?
A US company had a Global Express for the price of a new GIV.
Looks like another good deal.

Bombardier was looking for market penetration. AIG got a better deal than that. In the short run, sometimes getting 29.75 million for a product is better than not getting 43 million. In the long run, it significantly devalues your product in the preowned market. In aviation, as in most other endeavors, there is no free lunch. The early Globals were many months late on delivery then had to return to the Bombardier mod line for extensive modifications.

Global's main advantages are cabin width and market depreciation...

The Global is 10 inches wider than the G550, has a smaller completion weight allowance and weighs up to 7,000 lbs more while carrying no more payload. The market depreciation speaks for itself.

Thanks for your comments.

GV

 

[banned username 2]

The Global is 10 inches wider than the G550

This is probably what I consider the main downside to the G-v/500/550 line. I wish it had the cabin width of the Global... I realize that increases the wetted area and would degrade performance slightly, but man it would be nice!

 

[GVFlyer]

Fokkerjet

Good to hear from you again.

The GV/G550 is the same type. Differences training can be accomplished in conjunction with recurrent training.

A determination has not been made for the G450, but my feeling is that G450/G500/G550 will be the same type.

Not yet a beer can, 501 is back at Savannah as the aerodynamic test article for the G550.

GV








.

 

[GVFlyer]

This is probably what I consider the main downside to the G-v/500/550 line. I wish it had the cabin width of the Global... I realize that increases the wetted area and would degrade performance slightly, but man it would be nice!

While I consider 10 inches to be insignificant (in most things), you're right - a cabin width increase of just 10 inches would significantly increase form (or profile) drag. The 26 inch cabin windows would also go as they are conformal to the fuselage radius.

Such an increase is also inconsistent with Gulfstream design philosophy which is performance based. In the final analysis it's always F=MA and thus the engine's thrust deck is what determines how much volume can be propelled through the air at similar velocities. Bombardier has elected to devote more volume to the fuselage and less to the wing than has Gulfstream. Wing area for the Global is 1,002 square feet - the G550 wing area is 1,136.7 square feet. The resultant is an aircraft that, in the case of the Global, suffers from high wing loading - 98 lbs per sq.ft. and is buffet limited. G550 wing loading is nearly 20% less at 80 lbs. per sq. ft. and the Gulfstream is not buffet limited.

GV

 

[AeroDMB]

5 GV's and they do numerous trips a year to a resort up in northern MN somewhere. Go VFR sometimes.

Gotta be fun, VFR in a GV for 150 miles or so....

I was "sandwiched" between two of their GV's into Park Rapids last May on final. I was in a SR22 (pushing yellow arc) and thought I could keep up with them in formation but gave in and let the one behind me ahead...it was a neat site to say the least.

Once on the ramp, it seems they were drooling over my airplane more than I was over their's. Funny how pilots work...

 

[MACH-TUCK]

I remember summer 2000, I was taking a student on an IFR training flight from STP to BRD (Brainerd) about 80nm north of STP. As we're preflighting we see the 3M hanger open up and they pulled out 4 of the jets. About half way to BRD, those jets all started passing us, also going in to Brainerd. It got to be quite a mess once we got there, since they were dropping the pax off and returning to STP. Being an uncontrolled airport it is one in/one out, and we had 7 planes trying to get in that day (4 GV's, us, a Mesaba and a cessna)The center controller was thrilled when he recieved our cancellation! VFR was easier that day.

I had a NWA pilot mention that he'd be glad to give up his seat there to fly for 3M.

Yeah, I was pumping gas that day at Airmotive, it was one of the coolest sites Ive ever seen in my life......4 GVs in the pattern at once....then they land and like 3 execs get out of each one....seems to me like they all could have rode on one. I guess its there policy that they all can't ride in one plane...

I also remeber some cessnas coming in thinking they were at the wrong airport.

 

[AeroDMB]

One of the finest flight departments around...hope to work for them someday.