250 below 10000

[Workin'Stiff]

We hear it all the time here in DTW with the 744's and A330... Somethin' like they'll be doin' 280 initally in the climb... All of this while they're in the 5-7,000' range...

 

[cherry20's]

I have heard it in detroit and also in LA a lot. I have been given 280 in class B airspace many times but I do think every class B airspace is different. I don't remember anything about CLE being restricted to 170 kts. Been there a few times but don't remember it ever beening that slow. I do remember them slowing us up for traffic, but not 170?

 

[A Squared]

Excuse me but yes they can. There are some aircraft that need to go faster than 250 to matain a clean speed. The 747 just happens to be one of those a/c and sometimes our clean speed at landing weight is above 250.

That's a different story, if the *airplane* requires 250 knots for safety, obviously that is going to be permitted (it is adressed in 91.117(d)) If it's for the controller's (or pilot's) convenience; no the controller does not have the authority to waive this. As somone else mentioned, there was a test program in houston to allow controllers to waive this speed restriction. My understanding is that this test has ended.

 

[CA1900]

I don't remember anything about CLE being restricted to 170 kts. Been there a few times but don't remember it ever beening that slow. I do remember them slowing us up for traffic, but not 170?

Go there with any regularity, and you'll see it, especially during arrival banks. 170 knots, 30 miles out, even on a clear day. The only time we go any faster is when the ERJs report icing -- then everybody slows to 190 instead. (Hence why a snowstorm makes traffic move faster in CLE!) It's bizarre; you have to see it to believe it.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

It's kind of funny you mention that. It was a couple of months ago and we were all in line for 21L at DTW... Approach was slowing everyone to 160. An ERJ apparently wasn't slowing and the controller queried the pilots. They said they needed to maintain 190 in icing conditions. The controller pulling them out of line and proceeded to give them a lashing for not speaking up earlier...

 

[JungleJetCA]

There is no speed restriction in Class B, anywhere. As far as 250 below 10,000, ATC isn't authorized to allow you to fly faster than 250. The IAH flyers are well versed in this since the only place that this rule was waived for awhile was IAH, thus, once that program was ended, it's not allowed anywhere. Except for those aircraft whose operational requirements require greater than 250, which those flying these aircraft would definitely know that they could fly faster than 250, if you have to ask the question, than you probably aren't allowed.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

"There is no speed restriction in Class B, anywhere."

WRONG. Nice try. Back to ground school for you. Reference para (b) below. Para (d) applies to all the big guys that have to go fast.


Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph). (d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

 

[Headwind]

I understand this rule to be under class B, not in class B.

 

[JungleJetCA]

"There is no speed restriction in Class B, anywhere."

WRONG. Nice try. Back to ground school for you. Reference para (b) below. Para (d) applies to all the big guys that have to go fast.


Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph). (d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

Dude, sorry but your stepping on your own crank on this one. Biggest myth in aviation is that there is a speed limit in Class B. For example, if you take off out of Dallas or Denver and your are still in Class B at or above 10,000 feet, you may accelerate above 250. The rules above apply for areas outside and below the lateral limits of the Class B, not in it.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Dude, sorry but your stepping on your own crank on this one. Biggest myth in aviation is that there is a speed limit in Class B. For example, if you take off out of Dallas or Denver and your are still in Class B at or above 10,000 feet, you may accelerate above 250. The rules above apply for areas outside and below the lateral limits of the Class B, not in it.

Sec. 91.117 - Aircraft speed.
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph). (d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

Read it again, specifically the bolded parts. It is true above 10k in class B there is no speed limit (save for mach 1.0) but in class B below 10k you have to follow paragraph (a).