200 more furloughs at USairways

[Thebadcat1313]

Haven't you guys figured it out yet? On Jan 1, 2010 - LOA93 and the east pilot's contract is amendable. That means that USAPA will be filing a grievance about LOA 93 and the end date of the pay rates (where the 18% cut in hourly pay rates) revert back and then becomes amendable - and this is what the company disputes. So now - if the company loses the grievance and has to revert back to the original pay rates - they have additional leverage in which to negotiate the rates ie - we will recall all pilots if USAPA agrees to not file a grievance or in the event the company loses the grievances.

It is typical scare tactics - shock and awe with the announcement.

Metrojet

If the east is successful on the snap-back issue (which I seriously doubt) the company will immediately drop the east down to minimum block hours.

You do know that they are well above the minimum now, right?

That flying will transfer back to the west before you can say "Cleary is an idiot". West pilots will be recalled and the whipsaw will swing the other way.

On the other hand, if snap-backs are unsuccessful, the east is going to "show em", right? In which case, west will be recalled to cover the flying.

It's a win-win either way for west. The only way out of this is a combined contract with the Nic in place.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

AWA purchased AAA in the same way most of us buy a home or car. You go out and use your good credit to secure financing and buy the thing you want. For God's sake, why is this such a difficult concept? It sure wasn't AAA going out and borrowing money on THEIR good name to put the deal together.

Look, don't have a dog in this fight, just like 'shark' but like him; just get alittle tired of the BS and misinformation. Shark is A LOT closer to the truth than you are, AWA did not 'purchase' AAA, didn't have any 'credit' or anything to 'borrow' on; but as he clearly states, believe what you want.

Anyway, 'Thebad*************************' if you can tell me the exact name of the man who put this 'deal' together, the 'money, financing, commitments, etc' then I will believe you know what you are talking about; otherwise, you don't, so STFU. (hint; it was not D. Parker)

As I said, don't have a dog in this fight, but not sure why you seem critical of shark when he is closer to the truth than you are. All you have to do is give me the name, as i stated above, and I will believe you know something, or anything??

For what its worth.

PD

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Look, don't have a dog in this fight, just like 'shark' but like him; just get alittle tired of the BS and misinformation. Shark is A LOT closer to the truth than you are, AWA did not 'purchase' AAA, didn't have any 'credit' or anything to 'borrow' on; but as he clearly states, believe what you want.

Anyway, 'Thebad*************************' if you can tell me the exact name of the man who put this 'deal' together, the 'money, financing, commitments, etc' then I will believe you know what you are talking about; otherwise, you don't, so STFU. (hint; it was not D. Parker)

As I said, don't have a dog in this fight, but not sure why you seem critical of shark when he is closer to the truth than you are. All you have to do is give me the name, as i stated above, and I will believe you know something, or anything??

For what its worth.

PD

Wow. Pretty testy for someone who "doesn't have a dog in the fight".

All the information you seek was presented to George Nicolau during the arbitration hearings. SEC filings proved that AAA was within days of liquidation.

Do you have any idea what the cost of capital is for a company that is in it's 2nd trip through BK in two years? Someone had to borrow the money to put the deal together. One of the companies was a decent credit risk, and one of them wasn't. Nobody loans that kind of cash without looking at the "fico" score of the company. AAA needed AWA, or someone else with brighter prospects to pull their butts out of the fire.

This is not to minimize the value that AAA brought to the transaction. I think, at the time there was a lot of potential in the merger. It's just too bad that has been squandered by people who cannot or will not live up to their end of an agreement.

Believe what you want. In a financial sense, early in 2005, AAA couldn't get laid in a cathouse.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Wow. Pretty testy for someone who "doesn't have a dog in the fight".

All the information you seek was presented to George Nicolau during the arbitration hearings. SEC filings proved that AAA was within days of liquidation.

Do you have any idea what the cost of capital is for a company that is in it's 2nd trip through BK in two years? Someone had to borrow the money to put the deal together. One of the companies was a decent credit risk, and one of them wasn't. Nobody loans that kind of cash without looking at the "fico" score of the company. AAA needed AWA, or someone else with brighter prospects to pull their butts out of the fire.

This is not to minimize the value that AAA brought to the transaction. I think, at the time there was a lot of potential in the merger. It's just too bad that has been squandered by people who cannot or will not live up to their end of an agreement.

Believe what you want. In a financial sense, early in 2005, AAA couldn't get laid in a cathouse.

Well, all that babble, and all I did is ask you if you knew the answer to the question that I ask; and of course, You DON'T. ENUFF SAID, you don't know the answer, so you don't know what you are talking about.

I proved my point, I said enough on the subject, continue arguing with with the internet. Done.

PD

 

[MCDU]

Here is a hint for Thebadcat1313. His name starts with a B and he likes Lakes.

M

 

[eaglesview]

Hello, my name is Mike Cleary, I have a small dick and an even smaller brain.

High school was rough on you wasn't it. No matter what side you are on this is your response?? Let me guess, you want to be treated as a professional?

 

[OurMoney1]

At what point is RAH a competitor with US Airways and Parker continually doing business with them is a conflict of interest?
US Airways is established in LGA, PHL, CLT, MCO... why are they shrinking when Jet Blue and Southwest are expanding? If US Airways is truely losing money its because of their leadership. DP is way out of his league. This company needs to be employee owned.

Oh my jesus......employee owned?

Let me guess because the UAL employee owned was such a success. Kid get back in line you are out of your league with statements like that.

US East has been in touble for years, a LCC owned by empolyees when half the employees can't even agree on how to line up? Yeah...thats the answer.

 

[satpak77]

Well actually (and I even said Cactus "bought them" but I am wrong) both companies merged. I just did some background and see the "old" Cactus stock ticker symbol, and the "old" US Airways stock tickers, got shelved and a new one was issued, call "LCC."

This is what happens in a merger, when two companies merge (allegedly this was a "friendly merger") and a new animal is born out of the ashes.

While Cactus did not technically "buy out" US Air, it does appear they ram-rodded the merger, which it was, a merger.

It should be noted that the new stock started trading at $20 right out of the box, in approximately October 2005, hit a high of $60+ in December 2007, then basically went down after that.

It now trades at $3.

 

[ultrarunner]

It should be noted that the new stock started trading at $20 right out of the box, in approximately October 2005, hit a high of $60+ in December 2007, then basically went down after that.

It now trades at $3.

Ahhh.....you can never go wrong shorting an airline stock....

God bless America!

 

[satpak77]

Ahhh.....you can never go wrong shorting an airline stock....

God bless America!

Yeah, 60 to 3 is a 95% gain on the short side !

 

[ultrarunner]

Yeah, 60 to 3 is a 95% gain on the short side !

Yep :beer:

 

[Eagle757shark]

AWA purchased AAA in the same way most of us buy a home or car. You go out and use your good credit to secure financing and buy the thing you want. For God's sake, why is this such a difficult concept? It sure wasn't AAA going out and borrowing money on THEIR good name to put the deal together.

Man, where do you guys come from? This was a merger! The reason US Airways and America West were able to merge was because Airbus put up a few million dollars and Air Canada through in a few million dollars to allow these two companies to merge along with other investors. Amercia West DID NOT go to the bank and say lets take out a loan and buy US Airways! If that is what you believe, then it explains your thinking. Wrong thinking because that is not what happened. Sorry to bust your bubble. This is not a difficult concept for me to understand because these are the facts. Just take a moment and do your homework and you will understand this! Please don't start thumping your chest about what some damn arbitrator said. Again, the former America West did not go to the bank and say we want to take out a loan to buy all of US Airways. If you can find the evidence and can present it, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. But just to come on here and continue to yell it or say it over and over again that America West bought US Airways ain't going to make it so. Let me caution you, just because the headquarters is in Tempe, AZ and Doug Parker is ruining it, doesn't make it so either!

 

[Eagle757shark]

Wow. Pretty testy for someone who "doesn't have a dog in the fight".

All the information you seek was presented to George Nicolau during the arbitration hearings. SEC filings proved that AAA was within days of liquidation.

Do you have any idea what the cost of capital is for a company that is in it's 2nd trip through BK in two years? Someone had to borrow the money to put the deal together. One of the companies was a decent credit risk, and one of them wasn't. Nobody loans that kind of cash without looking at the "fico" score of the company. AAA needed AWA, or someone else with brighter prospects to pull their butts out of the fire.

This is not to minimize the value that AAA brought to the transaction. I think, at the time there was a lot of potential in the merger. It's just too bad that has been squandered by people who cannot or will not live up to their end of an agreement.

Believe what you want. In a financial sense, early in 2005, AAA couldn't get laid in a cathouse.

But your argument is wrong. We all remember how bad the former US Airways was back in 2005. We all know that without a merger US Airways probable would have liquadated. But America West did not go to the bank and borrow money to buy US Airways. The two big companies that took the risk and made the investment were Airbus and Air Canada not America West. What did US Airways have that they could leverage? For starters, the slots and gates in New York Laguadia and Washington National probable were more than the former America West as a whole company. Look you guys have made this whole thing personal, but it was business. The business was a merger and not a buyout by America West. This merger should have been a win-win for both airlines and their futures, but we will have to wait and see on that one.

 

[weasel_lips]

Heck NO, AWA was the best Major out there before the merger. It was listed as Fortune's #1 place to work. Best pay, best routes, quickest upgrades, best looking FA's. They had it all before USAIR came along.

 

[Eagle757shark]

US Airways To Merge, Move Base To Arizona
Fate of 1,970 Workers In Area Unclear Under Deal With America West


[SIZE=-1]By Keith L. Alexander
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 20, 2005
[/SIZE]
US Airways Group Inc. and America West Holdings Corp. said yesterday that they would merge in a $1.5 billion deal that would create the nation's largest budget airline with service throughout the United States and overseas.
The airline would operate under the US Airways name. US Airways would move its headquarters from Crystal City to Tempe, Ariz., the home of America West. The merged carrier would reduce its combined flights 12 to 13 percent. Most destinations would remain, but some current nonstop cross-country flights would be routed through a hub.
Fares probably would come down, industry observers said. "There will be more cities where fares will drop than go up," said Terry Trippler, chief executive of FareFacts.com Inc., which runs a Web site that provides information on airline fares. "America West has been successful and profitable with their lower fares."
A move to Tempe would raise questions about the future of US Airways' 1,970 Washington area workers, 600 of whom work in Crystal City.
"It's not possible to estimate how many layoffs that there may or may not be in Washington," said W. Douglas Parker, chairman and chief executive of America West.
The airline would still operate through US Airways' hubs in Philadelphia and Charlotte, and America West's hub in Phoenix. It would also continue to serve its high-focus cities of Washington, Boston, New York and Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The airlines' frequent-flier programs would be combined and members would retain their mileage points and status designations, executives said. The airlines expect to have their flight schedules coordinated and planes rebranded by year-end.
Parker would be chairman and chief executive of the new airline, while Bruce R. Lakefield, US Airways' president and chief executive, would be vice chairman.
Lakefield said the headquarters would be in Tempe because real estate and other costs are lower there than in the Washington area.
The combined airline would be the nation's fifth-largest carrier and would put pressure on other airlines, particularly low-cost carriers such as Southwest and AirTran Airways. The deal could also encourage struggling carriers such as Delta, Northwest and American to contemplate mergers or even steeper cost-cutting.
US Airways, the nation's seventh-largest carrier with nearly 30,000 employees, is twice the size of America West, the nation's eighth-largest airline with 14,000 employees. Its routes are primarily on the East Coast, while America West concentrates its service in the Midwest and West. US Airways is in its second Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization since 2002.
America West was launched in Tempe in 1983 with a fleet of three planes and a couple of hundred employees. Today it has 192 airplanes with about 100 nonstop flights from its hubs. Under Parker, America West became a low-cost carrier, and it began marketing itself as an airline that offers the best of both worlds -- bargain fares and some big-carrier perks. For example, the carrier offers a $198 round-trip coach fare between Baltimore and Las Vegas, with the option of buying a first-class ticket for $1,128.
The deal with America West is US Airways' second attempt to merge with another airline. The carrier sought to combine with United Airlines in 2000. But after the two airlines spent more than a year trying to persuade labor unions, Wall Street and government regulators to accept the deal, the Justice Department killed it, contending that the merger would have reduced competition and resulted in higher fares.
Some industry consultants said it was unlikely that the Justice Department would object to a combination of America West and US Airways because the airlines' route systems do not heavily overlap, as those of United and US Airways did. One of the biggest critics of the United-US Airways deal was R. Hewitt Pate, who resigned this month as head of the department's antitrust division.
Also, airline consultant Robert W. Mann said, Justice Department officials may be less reluctant to object to the deal because airline finances have declined drastically since 2001.
Besides the Justice Department, the deal would also need approval from U.S. Bankruptcy Court, US Airways' major creditors and America West shareholders. The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, the federal agency that pledged government money to back loans for both airlines, would also have to sign off. The two airlines combined have about $1 billion in outstanding loans.
The companies expect the deal to be completed by the fall.
Analysts said the airlines' biggest challenge would be integrating their workforces and sorting out seniority, which affects vacation time and other issues. The airlines don't expect to merge their labor groups for two to three years.
"They're going to have their hands full," said Raymond E. Neidl of Calyon Securities. "I think US Airways has a better chance of surviving now than it did as a stand-alone."
Executives boasted that the combined airline would be one of the industry's strongest with about $10 billion in annual revenue and $2 billion in cash. The deal would save the combined airline about $600 million, the executives said.
Most of the financing came from outside investors. Investment firms including ACE Aviation Holdings, parent company of Air Canada; Boston-based PAR Investment Partners; Virginia-based Peninsula Investment Partners; and Eastshore Aviation Holdings, which is owned by Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. and shareholders, contributed $350 million. European aircraft manufacturer Airbus invested $250 million in exchange for the airline becoming a launch customer of the upcoming Airbus A350.
The airlines also received $675 million through debt refinancing and other investments from credit card companies. Commitments of $425 million in additional cash came from "strategic partners and vendors," which the airlines did not identify.
America West shareholders would own 45 percent of the new airline, while the new investors would own 41 percent. US Airways' creditors would own about 14 percent.
Retirement Systems of Alabama, which became US Airways' largest shareholder during the carrier's first stint in bankruptcy protection, has not invested in the merger. Lakefield said talks with Retirement Systems Chairman David G. Bronner are continuing.
Staff writer Bill Brubaker contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company​

 

[Eagle757shark]

So would someone please tell me where the former America West went to the Bank and asked for $1.5 billion dollars to BUY US Airways? As you can see from where the financing came from, that just didn't happen. This folks was a merger not a buyout buy the former America West!

 

[vetrider]

High school was rough on you wasn't it. No matter what side you are on this is your response?? Let me guess, you want to be treated as a professional?

That's what he should have written, he could have saved himself some typing. Usapa and Mike Cleary are irrelevant to the company, and he doesn't understand why.

 

[satpak77]

Indeed it was a merger. I will toss into the argument however that it was "ram-rodded" by America West

 

[charlie2]

As far as LOA 93 is concerned, USAPA's position is that LOA's actually expire unlike a contract which becomes "amendable" therefore making everything in the contract "status quo" until you get a new contract. If the arbitrator agrees that LOA's expire vs becoming amendable then the pay rates will have to go back to LOA 84. This is not a "snap back" it is an expiration of an LOA.

 

[TWA Dude]

I can't believe people are still arguing about who bought who. Here's the fact: for accounting purposes AWA was shown as the acquiring carrier. That's all there is to it. Of course the money came from outside investors so for all intents and purposes it's meaningless to brag that AWA bought US Air.

And BTW, all mergers are also acquisitions. It's meaningless to harp on the distinction between the two terms. Nicolau didn't either.