200 KIAS below class "B"

[matthewjohn]

We all know the rule. the airspace I am interested in particularly is TEB. Arriving on he Jaike One you are kept in class B airspace if you are at 3000 and NW or 1800 most other places I believe (you can look at the 10-1 in the Jepps to see where I am talking about). Once you are vectored off the arrival the requirement to advise ATC of speed less than 250 is not technically required (but probably still a good idea), so When you are vectored and given a descent below one of the applicable class B floor altitudes without assigned a speed by ATC, is ATC expecting you to slow to 200 kt?!?!

 

[xjcaptain]

They should expect it as it is required by FAR's. Same as slowing to 250 below 10,000. In either case no ATC call is REQUIRED. If you choose to let them know, no harm no foul.

 

[nerdpilot]

Atlanta is the only place especially coming into PDK where they will nail you for speed but I am sure there are others

 

[CA1900]

Getting "nailed" wouldn't be my only concern -- not rear-ending a light airplane who's deliberately flying under the Class B would be high on my list, too.

 

[Taildraggaah]

There was an article in Professional Pilot a few months back that a pilot wrote(sorry the month is escaping me, maybe FEB?). He basically was putting up some great reasons why that rule should be abolished. He talked about how it is a "pitfall" in places like New York...

 

[Indy refugee]

Atlanta is not the only place they'll 'nail' you.

HPN arrivals have been nailed, and some LGB controllers actually enjoy 'nailing' pilots.

 

[PropPiedmont]

MDW, OAK, and SJC too.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I agree it should be abolished for aircraft operating on an IFR flight plan. How do we go about getting an NPRM?

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Unable, too busy.

I wrote about this on the Company web site; I'm in full agreement. This rule, as applied to jets and other IFR airplanes, sucks. We as pilots, need to communicate the central problem with compliance with this rule: We are unable to monitor our exact Class B position at all times during our arrival. (And that's in a modern "glass" airplane like the CL-300. I don't know how the Lear 25 guys ever have a chance.)

We can pre-plan for an arrival, but any unexpected altitude change or vector wipes out what we planned to do. (And we never know when controllers are going to descend us. It's usually after we pass Cherokee 61 Foxtrot.)

If nothing else, the arrival into any of the Class B areas is the time when our attention should be paid to looking for traffic -- to say nothing of checklist completion, monitoring the frequency, consulting the approach plate, and that passenger who got up to get one last drink.

I have suggested to my co-workers we ask for a specific speed assignment at some point on the approach. If the controllers would do us the favor of assigning a speed, then we can maintain an efficient flow of traffic and stay out of legal trouble. Otherwise, they can expect me to ask: "Does this take me under Class B" at the busiest time of their day. I am more than willing to demonstrate to the feds that this is unworkable.

Until the politicians get their head out, that's the best that we mortals can do.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Guys, it isn't hard to figure out when you are below class B. Pull out the chart from Book 1 in your jepps and use some situational awareness.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Spoken by a man who has never been to SMO.

 

[veneratio]

F that ********************, u can be going 220, 230 or whatever, when they ask you what's your speed just say 200. Never admit the truth. But to answer the original question, yes, you have to slow down to 200 kts, and no, you do not have to notify ATC. Same as below 10,000, u can go 180 if u want and not 250 and you don't have to notify ATC, if they see a conflict they will either vector you off or ask you to fly a specific speed.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Hey V

u can go 180 if u want and not 250 and you don't have to notify ATC

Thanks for the back up, but you need to look at the JAIKE arrival into TEB. (Not a common destination in the ERJ, but look at it.)

It requires that we advise ATC when slowing below 250. That means that through all of the random vectoring and altitude changes, we have to find the exact spot when we go below Class B.

With all of the traffic to look for, and already monitoring the STAR chart, and the approach plate, we have to pull out, like the New York Sectional to find this magic spot. All the while, looking for Joe Cherokee. Just can't be done. Anyone who says they can is either John Glenn, or they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[PositionandHold]

Without a sectional chart and on vectors, how would you even know if you're under the shelf? I would have figured they'd always have you slow by telling you. That's been my experience, at least.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

You know you're under the shelf by DME. Of course, if you're doing what you're supposed to, your DME is tuned to some other source (either the VOR on the arrival you're flying, or ILS that you're gonna fly). Then again, some Class B's are centered around something that isn't even a navaid.

Once you figure you're kinda close to being underneath, then you gotta find out if you're north of some radial. Again, the NAV equipment is setup for your arrival or your approach, rather than the 312 radial of the primary airport, which you're not going to. And that's IF the Class B is based off of a navaid. Some are centered around an airport (EWR?); how do I DME Newark Airport?

And then there are the Class B's that use highways or some other criteria to divide the sections.

And no, Position, ATC has no responsibility to tell you you're under Class B. You must be flying around MSP Class B, or somewhere nice. As far as the law goes, it's our job to know when we're underneath -- somehow.