2 -v- 1 (close call with a Viper)

[cjdriver]

I could look again at the radar track and tell you, but my guess is it was 17500 or 16500 since his RA forced him into positive control airspace. His relative altitude to the 16 was within a few hundred feet as evidenced by the RA itself. My point was that a 180 degree turn towards the ga and the resultant RA demonstrates an aggressive and impulsive move on the part of the 16. Now I will be honest with you and say that if I was 20 something in a 16 and thought I could turn on a corp jet without him knowing it and lock him up with my targeting radar, I would have been tempted. It would have been the wrong thing to do though, wouldn't you agree?

 

[JungleJett]

I was asking what the Vipers altitude was...not the GA guy.

 

[cjdriver]

It would have to be within a few hundred feet to generate an RA, and the pilot is heard reporting the 16 came within a couple hundred feet. That would be credible, coming from someone who flies a jet aircraft and is dependent on their ability to judge distances the way we do everyday, would it not?

 

[KCPilot]

So what if the Viper intercepted the Civ guy. In his shoes I'd probably do the same to make sure he exited the area without incident.

Bottom line, when a MOA is active, don't fly into it. You don't know what is going on and you'll get yourself killed and most likely someone else too.

BTW- do any of you civ guys have 121.5 tuned up in your second radio? If not you should!

 

[JungleJett]

It would have to be within a few hundred feet to generate an RA, and the pilot is heard reporting the 16 came within a couple hundred feet. That would be credible, coming from someone who flies a jet aircraft and is dependent on their ability to judge distances the way we do everyday, would it not?

But you do not know for sure right? And a pilot who is NOT used to airplanes being within a 1000 feet of them is not going to be great with distances. It seems as their is a belief that the Viper did NOT come within 600 feet of him..and the GA pilot said he was 10 feet away..so no, I do not trust what the GA said.

Also, TCAS is based on rate of closure as well relative altitude.

 

[bagasticks]

rezolution. . . . dude. . . . . . .you are lost like a ball in tall weeds. . . i hope you are NOTAM'd when u fly. .

 

[Scrapdog]

It would have to be within a few hundred feet to generate an RA, and the pilot is heard reporting the 16 came within a couple hundred feet. That would be credible, coming from someone who flies a jet aircraft and is dependent on their ability to judge distances the way we do everyday, would it not?

I can garauntee you the GA guy has no clue on the distances vs. other airplanes. One, he's never flown close formation with an F-16 nor any other aircraft. Two, in order for us fighter guys to get our eyes caged on range, we do ranging exercises all the time...i.e. it takes practice. And that's against another airplane that's the exact same type.

This GA clown almost certainly had no idea if the F-16 was 1000 feet or 100 feet. He doesn't know when the canopy starts to break out or what range the intake takes shape (all cues for us to base our range). And his perception would tie in perfectly with his judgement to fly into a hot MOA in the first place - sub par.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can garauntee you the GA guy has no clue on the distances vs. other airplanes. One, he's never flown close formation with an F-16 nor any other aircraft. Two, in order for us fighter guys to get our eyes caged on range, we do ranging exercises all the time...i.e. it takes practice. And that's against another airplane that's the exact same type.

This GA clown almost certainly had no idea if the F-16 was 1000 feet or 100 feet. He doesn't know when the canopy starts to break out or what range the intake takes shape (all cues for us to base our range). And his perception would tie in perfectly with his judgement to fly into a hot MOA in the first place - sub par.

And he shouldn't be expected too.....

However, he should expect not to be pushed into Class A airspace...with a TCAS RA....


Why would a MIL pilot fly like that?

 

[Scrapdog]

And he shouldn't be expected too.....

However, he should expect not to be pushed into Class A airspace...with a TCAS RA....


Why would a MIL pilot fly like that?

Because he was responding to a GA pilot flying in the middle of his fight when the GA pilot knew perfectly well it was a hot MOA.

It's not rocket science, if there are 4 or 8 high speed military jets maneuvering in relation to each other, they're not looking for a 250 knot GA airplane. Don't go in there, for safety's sake alone, much less poor judgement.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Why would a MIL pilot fly like that?

Fighter guys don't use TCAS, nor are they required to respond to RAs.

Remember that question I asked a few pages ago about looking for a reference?

That's because I didn't f*cking know the answer. The Viper guy probably didn't either.