1500 hr bill passes senate!!!

[buscap]

Lynxman, don't sweat it too much. I failed 3 checkrides (all Part 61) and it did not slow me down one bit.

As long as you can demonstrate that you've learned something from your previous mistakes, it's unlikely anyone will even care.

In fact, thinking back to my 5 interviews, I don't think I've EVER been asked about failed checkrides... especially the Part 61 ones.

Now, if you have a history of failing 121 rides, on the other hand, THAT stuff will tend to stick with you far longer...

What I'm saying is, you're not the first person to fail a checkride, and not the last. Most people fail 1, 2, even 3 in their careers.

Keep your head up and fly right, you'll do fine.

I hope you're right, but all that was before Colgan in Buffalo. No airline will want to be next on CNN explaining why they hired someone with so many failed checkrides. This law will have an effect on the issue of failed checkrides.

It's a shame, considering the large number of bitter idiots and money chasers out there giving part 61 rides.

 

[johnpeace]

I think we might have a misunderstanding about what "making money" means in this context. When I mean "making money," I mean making enough to make a decent living, perhaps support another person, and not eat ramen noodles. "Decent Living" isn't very ambiguous. The only people I know who made good money and a decent living as CFIs worked at established international academies geared towards foreign students. Those jobs aren't very easy to come by.

I instructed triple the time you did, so I don't think I'm the one who needs a self examination. I think you need to get off your high horse.

I was making about $2800-3200/month + bonueses as a CFI.

We live in Georgia, living expenses are low, it seemed like 'decent money' to me. I have a wife and 3 kids and we never ate ramen noodles.

It was over twice as much as first year pay at ASA. In fact, I don't even think 2nd year pay at ASA is going to bring me back to that earnings level.

The problem is that I was pretty much maxed out. I didn't have more hours in the month that I could instruct...my rate could maybe have gone up a little, but that wouldn't have made that big a difference and it would have required me making a commitment to flight instruction that I didn't really want to make.

I know CFIs/DPEs who bill themselves out at over $100/hour and have no problem staying busy. There's a reason people are willing to pay over $100/hr for instruction...it's because it's 3x as good and productive as mediocre instruction.

That tells me that if you can't command $100/hr, there's room to grow and get better...and that theres a market out there that'll pay you that.

So, if it's possible to bill at over $100/hr to give flight instruction...and the only thing you need to do is to know enough and be excellent enough to command that rate, isn't it simply a failure to do your best if you're making 'starving' wages as a CFI? Whether at marketing, instructing, improving your communication skills, selling flight instruction, etc...if you're 'starving' it's because of you...not the market.

 

[Mungusaurus]

Hmm, flying a Transport category airplane for an Airline requires one to have an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate!! What a novel idea!

The bypass from CFI straight to CRJ or ERJ or any other 20,000+ lb airplane is what went wrong. Gone are the days of CFI- Small Freight or similar job- Small Commuter (1900-J31 etc)- SAAB/Dash- Jet! These missing steps prepared a pilot for the additional loads/ stresses/ technology and are now all but gone. Save for a few Commuters out there. An "AVERAGE" civillian trained, 300 hr pilot does not have the experience or skill to step from the mighty 172 to an RJ. Its like going from a 50cc scooter to a GSXR1000; you might make it, but its gonna hurt!
:smash::bomb:

 

[Lynxman]

Something is going to have to change in the 135 world then. My flight school isn't dead; we are making money by having great instruction and we charge accordingly, but not nearly enough to fly more than a few hundred hours a year.

 

[surplus1]

My CFII was my initial still don't have the ticket either. Failure rate at my FSDO was 90% for initial applicants.

If the failure rate is in fact that high (90%) one of two things is wrong: 1) The quality of instruction being given is super poor, or 2) The examiner(s) are unreasonable. My advice is - figure out which one it is and then go someplace else.

Sometimes it is the student's fault but not when the failure rate is that high.

 

[Lynxman]

I'll be the first to admit the last one was my fault. The instruction was great, but nerves got the better of me the first and second time around. My examiner asked me about my aspirations to fly for a living and telling him the airlines seemed to have set off something in him. Lot's of belittling went on during the course of my 6-7 hour long oral only to be failed at the end. Needless to say my confidence is very low right now.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

I'll be the first to admit the last one was my fault. The instruction was great, but nerves got the better of me the first and second time around. My examiner asked me about my aspirations to fly for a living and telling him the airlines seemed to have set off something in him. Lot's of belittling went on during the course of my 6-7 hour long oral only to be failed at the end. Needless to say my confidence is very low right now.

Remember when I used to put you under the hood for unusual attitude recovery in the R and some of the times you'd look up and the ground was above you?

What happened brah, you used to be THE MAN dawg....I am disappoint.

 

[NoJoy]

Lynx that is total BS. A 6 hr oral is not fair. Sounds like you need a different DE. Our school had a couple-one was even a Skin Head Neo-Nazi, but he treated all students fairly and his failure rate was 10%. Most examiners are a bit strange, but in the end if their fair and you learn something, that is what counts-

 

[johnpeace]

Lynx that is total BS. A 6 hr oral is not fair. Sounds like you need a different DE.

My initial CFI took at LEAST that long....I got there in the morning and drove home in the dark.

 

[Lynxman]

Lynx that is total BS. A 6 hr oral is not fair. Sounds like you need a different DE. Our school had a couple-one was even a Skin Head Neo-Nazi, but he treated all students fairly and his failure rate was 10%. Most examiners are a bit strange, but in the end if their fair and you learn something, that is what counts-

I still need to take responsibility for it though and hopefully one day with the advent of this legislation I will be able to explain myself and get a job. I know I'm good, but with disclosing my failures I feel I'm screwed to the hiring board.

 

[slick1]

Quote: "The Senate passed a bill that increases the minimum number of flight hours for beginning passenger airline pilots from 250 to 1,500, and a White House spokeswoman said President Obama will sign the bill this weekend."
******************

And this legislation is SOOOO IMPORTANT,....that we're only gonna make you wait THREE YEARS for it to take effect,.....because we know that no airline in their right mind would AGAIN hire low-time pilots and put your family at risk,...... to save $10 per flight hour.

And

Quote: "In addition, the bill mandates simulator stall-recovery training..."
************

....because it's unreasonable for us to expect a professional pilot to have received stall training and testing during their private pilot training and FAA checkride, their commercial pilot training and checkride, their 121 or 135 training and FAA checkrides, any Type specific training and checkride, or their ATP FAA checkride.

There just aren't enough opportunities for professional pilots to demonstrate proficiency in stall recovery! Thank God, Senator Chuck Schumer is here to make sure that all professional pilots know when to push the yoke forward and add power!

I can't WAIT for my government to handle my healthcare!!! Nobody know's how to treat ulcerative colitis like a lawyer-turned politician!

 

[sayrejm]

My CFI initial was an 8 hour oral then a 2.5 hour flight which I did one thing he disagreed with. It was based on technique. Either way I am told that the FAA get's on a DPE's back if he fails less than 70% of his CFI initials.

 

[CX880]

I'll be the first to admit the last one was my fault. The instruction was great, but nerves got the better of me the first and second time around. My examiner asked me about my aspirations to fly for a living and telling him the airlines seemed to have set off something in him. Lot's of belittling went on during the course of my 6-7 hour long oral only to be failed at the end. Needless to say my confidence is very low right now.

This is Gods way of telling you to find another career. I'm not sure that CFI rides count for much as failures but it all depends on who's judging you. Some fat HR lady who has no idea what it means to be a pilot will probably not be happy that you failed to get your "instructor" rating but another pilot on the board may think it's no big deal because they know failure rates for CFI is very high. No use in worrying about it, it's all about luck in this industry, not merit. That's why so many are miserable.

Personally, a red flag would be someone that has failed to complete 121 airline training. That's a big red flag, but a couple of explaineable checkrides here and there? Who cares.

 

[erjip]

The CFI ride does matter. The magical number happens to be 3 failures for disqualification.

With that being said, I had a student who took 3 rides (Private, Instrument and Commercial Multi) and failed 2 of them. He got hired by Mesa and then got furloughed. But Colgan hired him recently.

We have an instructor who took 8 rides and failed 3 including CFI intial and Colgan wouldn't even interview him.

I know it doesn't sound fair but thats the way airlines are now. Its not fair to penalize someone who failed his private around 50 hours and instrument around 100 hours.

Can you imagine if the Medical Board told a doctor that just graduated from med school that they couldn't practice because they had failed science class in 3rd grade, in 5th grade and 9th grade.

Good grief.

 

[CX880]

The CFI ride does matter. The magical number happens to be 3 failures for disqualification.

With that being said, I had a student who took 3 rides (Private, Instrument and Commercial Multi) and failed 2 of them. He got hired by Mesa and then got furloughed. But Colgan hired him recently.

We have an instructor who took 8 rides and failed 3 including CFI intial and Colgan wouldn't even interview him.

I know it doesn't sound fair but thats the way airlines are now. Its not fair to penalize someone who failed his private around 50 hours and instrument around 100 hours.

Can you imagine if the Medical Board told a doctor that just graduated from med school that they couldn't practice because they had failed science class in 3rd grade, in 5th grade and 9th grade.

Good grief.

Those failures are in primary training, and really the examiners are not require to fail you like they are during the CFI. You really did something wrong if you failed primary rides more than once. Airlines do look at that. People will fail something, there's just too much that can go wrong during a check ride, most of witch is subjective. The examiner may not like the way you look that day, or you might get a bad flight partner etc etc. The key is multiple bad failures.