Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

1500 Hours required to be in an airine cockpit

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

luckytohaveajob

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Posts
1,114
Legislation just passed. Will be signed by the president shortly.

Legislation reauthorizes FAA funding till Sept. 2010 and include permanent safety changes the FAA has failed to implement on its own.

The Colgan accident has finally served the greater good of all and produced something beneficial. Thank you to the Colgan families who efforts have benefited us all at their great expense and loss.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703578104575398291351735012.html
 
It's in there....doesn't go into effect for 3 years.....and ATP requirements to change so as to substitute Classroom study for X amount of hours......so Pilot mills still safe...

SEC. 216. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS.

(a) Requirements-

(1) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement means and methods for ensuring that flight crewmembers have proper qualifications and experience.


(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS-

(A) PROSPECTIVE FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that prospective flight crewmembers undergo comprehensive preemployment screening, including an assessment of the skills, aptitudes, airmanship, and suitability of each applicant for a position as a flight crewmember in terms of functioning effectively in the air carrier’s operational environment.


(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--

(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and


(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.





(b) Deadlines- The Administrator shall issue--

(1) not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, a notice of proposed rulemaking under subsection (a); and


(2) not later than 24 months after such date of enactment, a final rule under subsection (a).



(c) Default- The requirement that each flight crewmember for a part 121 air carrier hold an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall begin to apply on the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act even if the Administrator fails to meet a deadline established under this section.


SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.

(a) Rulemaking Proceeding- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to amend part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, to modify requirements for the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate.


(b) Minimum Requirements- To be qualified to receive an airline transport pilot certificate pursuant to subsection (a), an individual shall--

(1) have sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, to enable a pilot to function effectively in an air carrier operational environment; and


(2) have received flight training, academic training, or operational experience that will prepare a pilot, at a minimum, to--

(A) function effectively in a multipilot environment;


(B) function effectively in adverse weather conditions, including icing conditions;


(C) function effectively during high altitude operations;


(D) adhere to the highest professional standards; and


(E) function effectively in an air carrier operational environment.




(c) Flight Hours-

(1) NUMBERS OF FLIGHT HOURS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall be at least 1,500 flight hours.


(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.



(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.


(e) Recommendations of Expert Panel- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this section, the Administrator shall review and consider the assessment and recommendations of the expert panel to review part 121 and part 135 training hours established by section 209(b) of this Act.


(f) Deadline- Not later than 36 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator shall issue a final rule under subsection (a).
 
So essentially, get 1500 hrs in difficult flying scenarios related to air carrier flying....OR pay Riddle or ATPs or whomever 100k to get the classroom or experience... Regionals will be safe, and the owners of the pilot mills will make more money for those that want to fly for the airlines......
 
If I read it correctly:
Crew Rest/Duty/Flight rules will change within ONE year max, and apply to ALL PILOTS.
This means more pilots will be needed, especially at the regional airlines...

ATP required for all -121 pilots, and will include a 1500 hour min, reduceable, and more training than what is required now for ATP....3 years until ATP required.
 
So essentially, get 1500 hrs in difficult flying scenarios related to air carrier flying....OR pay Riddle or ATPs or whomever 100k to get the classroom or experience... Regionals will be safe, and the owners of the pilot mills will make more money for those that want to fly for the airlines......

Exactly! I get the feeling not much has been fixed here. Kinda like the new health care... Everybody should have health care so we'll just mandate it! Who benefits? Well the people of course... Oh! And the insurance companies...
 
If I read it correctly:
Crew Rest/Duty/Flight rules will change within ONE year max, and apply to ALL PILOTS.
This means more pilots will be needed, especially at the regional airlines...

ATP required for all -121 pilots, and will include a 1500 hour min, reduceable, and more training than what is required now for ATP....3 years until ATP required.

You read it correctly, but you'll be able to get an ATP with less than 1500 hours if you go to a puppy mill. Typical gooobermit lip service BS!

Also, don't forget to inspect the language where your disciplinary record, check airman comments, etc all are now public record, and the airline you interview with next will know about the time you checked in for a trip 15 minutes late.

This could be negative, and far reaching. Especially since it does nothing to curb the puppy mills.
 
Barriers to entry!

1500 hours required or $200k. The Multi-pilot License will be given credit to qualify for "MPL" ATP. Cost will drastically increased. 250 hours in Level D Full Motion simulators at $500 an hour would be $125k for simulator time alone. MPL programs would cost over $200k at a puppy mill.

And in addition the 1500 hours can not be flight instructor time but in difficult operational conditions.

(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.

The bar has been raised. The hiring frenzy of unqualified pilots will stop. And the reward of pay from the airlines for new hires will increase as a result of their professional qualities and credentials.
 
Last edited:
Not to get off track, but how come 3 years till the ATP is necessary? They enacted age 65 right away.
 
Once again we find that our all-knowing and omnipotent federal government can't get anything right.

This should have been a one-liner in CFR 14, part 121:
"All flight crew members must hold, at least a multi-engine Airline Transport Pilot license and instrument rating."

Plain, simple, unambiguous, effective.

But congress just can't seem to get past themselves. They always have to turn a simple solution into a monumental, ambiguous, cluster mess.

I can't wait for them to handle my healthcare.
 
Once again we find that our all-knowing and omnipotent federal government can't get anything right.

This should have been a one-liner in CFR 14, part 121:
"All flight crew members must hold, at least a multi-engine Airline Transport Pilot license and instrument rating."

Plain, simple, unambiguous, effective.

But congress just can't seem to get past themselves. They always have to turn a simple solution into a monumental, ambiguous, cluster mess.

I can't wait for them to handle my healthcare.

Ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
 
Barriers to entry!

1500 hours required or $200k. The Multi-pilot License will be given credit to qualify for "MPL" ATP. Cost will drastically increased. 250 hours in Level D Full Motion simulators at $500 an hour would be $125k for simulator time alone. MPL programs would cost over $200k at a puppy mill.

And in addition the 1500 hours can not be flight instructor time but in difficult operational conditions.

(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.

The bar has been raised. The hiring frenzy of unqualified pilots will stop. And the reward of pay from the airlines for new hires will increase as a result of their professional qualities and credentials.

Sure would be nice if it were true. I seriously doubt, however, that this will change anything.

First, there are a lot of 'to be determined by the administrator' phrases in here. The assumption is that Babbitt (or any future administrator) will do the right thing. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it. He presides over the agency whose collective failure led to this legislation in the first place. For all I know, he may WANT to do the right thing, but likely doesn't have the authority needed for significant change. I can tell you from experience that the corruption all the way up the chain at the FAA is beyond obscene. IMHO, many current and former FAA folks should be in jail.

It's all about supply and demand. If demand is there but supply isn't, you can bet the powers-that-be will find a way to manipulate this law to free up supply.

Remember the golden rule - He Who Has the Gold, Makes the Rules
 
You Debbie Downers need to read more and type less. This is the most significant progress made in our profession in decades.
 
It's in there....doesn't go into effect for 3 years.....and ATP requirements to change so as to substitute Classroom study for X amount of hours......so Pilot mills still safe...
With the loophole for Freshmen playing with cardboard cut outs of RJ's running outdated versions of Micrsoft flight simulator under the supervision of Sophomores this bill does not mean a whole lot.
 
This should have been a one-liner in CFR 14, part 121:
"All flight crew members must hold, at least a multi-engine Airline Transport Pilot license and instrument rating."

Plain, simple, unambiguous, effective.

yeah, what he said
 
"(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement."


Don't inject more than what's written. There is no mention of what academic courses will be credited or how. The stage is set for us to influence what gets approved. This is OUR government, stop the "puppy mill" negativity and get involved. Start simple; write your congressman a quick note or ask your respective union representation to take an active role.

In other news...

http://avstop.com/news_july_2010/massive_mobilization_of_aviation_labor_organizations.htm
 
"(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement."


Don't inject more than what's written. There is no mention of what academic courses will be credited or how. The stage is set for us to influence what gets approved. This is OUR government, stop the "puppy mill" negativity and get involved. Start simple; write your congressman a quick note or ask your respective union representation to take an active role.

In other news...

http://avstop.com/news_july_2010/massive_mobilization_of_aviation_labor_organizations.htm


Actually, you need to wait for the Notice of Proposed Rule Making. Then you get your chance to submit your comments. The agencies read these and then formulate the Final Rules.

Laws are enacted, but it is up to the agencies to promulgate rules to guide the enforcement of the laws. Before they can issue the rules, they have to put out a Notice of Proposed Rule Making. We all get a window in which to comment. That's how we get to have a say in how the final rules are created.
 
You mean like the Age-65 Law (rule) that was passed on 12/22 and went into effect 12/23?
 
NOT like Age 65. Congress got tired of the FAA doing nothing, and took over.

In this case, Congress gave the FAA specific dates (1 year for Rest/Duty/Flight changes), 3 years for ATP/1500 hours. If the FAA cannot make this timeline, I am 99% sure that Congress will enact the legislation, just like they did for the Age 65 stuff.
 
I am happy about the 1y for the rest requirement changes. I was expecting something much longer. This will help furloughed guys hopefully by this time next year. I think the rest rules (as long they don't get trimmed) will have a much bigger impact on hiring all across the industry. The 1500h really only impacts the regionals and the CFI market.
 
It's in there....doesn't go into effect for 3 years.....and ATP requirements to change so as to substitute Classroom study for X amount of hours......so Pilot mills still safe...
You read it correctly, but you'll be able to get an ATP with less than 1500 hours if you go to a puppy mill. Typical gooobermit lip service BS!

I would guess that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to substitute hours.

And in addition the 1500 hours can not be flight instructor time but in difficult operational conditions.

(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.

Not that certain instructing environments are not in difficult operational conditions, I doubt that all 1500 hours will be required to be in such conditions anyways.

Oh, crap. I don't have an instrument rating on my ATP!

:laugh:

I was thinking the same thing.

Does this mean Gulfstream has to stop operating B1900s w/ 20 passengers?

That's awesome! They will probably just convert their 121 certificate into part 135.
 
NOT like Age 65. Congress got tired of the FAA doing nothing, and took over.

In this case, Congress gave the FAA specific dates (1 year for Rest/Duty/Flight changes), 3 years for ATP/1500 hours. If the FAA cannot make this timeline, I am 99% sure that Congress will enact the legislation, just like they did for the Age 65 stuff.

I've been reading through the legislation and am still trying to understand...

So if someone's under 1,500 hrs right now, there's a 3 year period in which they could maybe get a 121 job before this law takes effect? At which point it would then be 1,500 hours to get hired.
 
That is how I understand it, BUT NO GRANDFATHER clause. So, if hired in 2 years with 500 hours, at 3 year point, if say, 500 hours, you are done and can't fly for your airline any more until back up to ATP (easier to say ATP as that IS required, and 1500 may be higher/lower, but ATP regardless).
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom