1500 Hours required to be in an airine cockpit

[machophil]

"(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement."


Don't inject more than what's written. There is no mention of what academic courses will be credited or how. The stage is set for us to influence what gets approved. This is OUR government, stop the "puppy mill" negativity and get involved. Start simple; write your congressman a quick note or ask your respective union representation to take an active role.

In other news...

http://avstop.com/news_july_2010/massive_mobilization_of_aviation_labor_organizations.htm

 

[lostplnetairman]

"(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement."


Don't inject more than what's written. There is no mention of what academic courses will be credited or how. The stage is set for us to influence what gets approved. This is OUR government, stop the "puppy mill" negativity and get involved. Start simple; write your congressman a quick note or ask your respective union representation to take an active role.

In other news...

http://avstop.com/news_july_2010/massive_mobilization_of_aviation_labor_organizations.htm

Actually, you need to wait for the Notice of Proposed Rule Making. Then you get your chance to submit your comments. The agencies read these and then formulate the Final Rules.

Laws are enacted, but it is up to the agencies to promulgate rules to guide the enforcement of the laws. Before they can issue the rules, they have to put out a Notice of Proposed Rule Making. We all get a window in which to comment. That's how we get to have a say in how the final rules are created.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You mean like the Age-65 Law (rule) that was passed on 12/22 and went into effect 12/23?

 

[atpcliff]

NOT like Age 65. Congress got tired of the FAA doing nothing, and took over.

In this case, Congress gave the FAA specific dates (1 year for Rest/Duty/Flight changes), 3 years for ATP/1500 hours. If the FAA cannot make this timeline, I am 99% sure that Congress will enact the legislation, just like they did for the Age 65 stuff.

 

[huncowboy]

I am happy about the 1y for the rest requirement changes. I was expecting something much longer. This will help furloughed guys hopefully by this time next year. I think the rest rules (as long they don't get trimmed) will have a much bigger impact on hiring all across the industry. The 1500h really only impacts the regionals and the CFI market.

 

[CA1900]

"All flight crew members must hold, at least a multi-engine Airline Transport Pilot license and instrument rating."

Oh, crap. I don't have an instrument rating on my ATP!

:laugh:

 

[Deerkiller]

Does this mean Gulfstream has to stop operating B1900s w/ 20 passengers?

 

[Nevets]

It's in there....doesn't go into effect for 3 years.....and ATP requirements to change so as to substitute Classroom study for X amount of hours......so Pilot mills still safe...

You read it correctly, but you'll be able to get an ATP with less than 1500 hours if you go to a puppy mill. Typical gooobermit lip service BS!

I would guess that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to substitute hours.

And in addition the 1500 hours can not be flight instructor time but in difficult operational conditions.

(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.

Not that certain instructing environments are not in difficult operational conditions, I doubt that all 1500 hours will be required to be in such conditions anyways.

Oh, crap. I don't have an instrument rating on my ATP!

:laugh:

I was thinking the same thing.

Does this mean Gulfstream has to stop operating B1900s w/ 20 passengers?

That's awesome! They will probably just convert their 121 certificate into part 135.

 

[Citrus531]

NOT like Age 65. Congress got tired of the FAA doing nothing, and took over.

In this case, Congress gave the FAA specific dates (1 year for Rest/Duty/Flight changes), 3 years for ATP/1500 hours. If the FAA cannot make this timeline, I am 99% sure that Congress will enact the legislation, just like they did for the Age 65 stuff.

I've been reading through the legislation and am still trying to understand...

So if someone's under 1,500 hrs right now, there's a 3 year period in which they could maybe get a 121 job before this law takes effect? At which point it would then be 1,500 hours to get hired.

 

[atpcliff]

That is how I understand it, BUT NO GRANDFATHER clause. So, if hired in 2 years with 500 hours, at 3 year point, if say, 500 hours, you are done and can't fly for your airline any more until back up to ATP (easier to say ATP as that IS required, and 1500 may be higher/lower, but ATP regardless).

 

[Lear70]

I'm sure the 3 year hold-off was put in to appease the airline industry who was screaming that they wouldn't be able to staff...

3 Years likely

1. gets them through the worst of the next hiring curve,

2. gives them time to try to get a Republican President back in office and,

3. gives them time to try to get NEW legislation enacted. Remember, this is a TEMPORARY bill, part of a temporary FAA re-authorization bill to continue to give the FAA funding until a majority can agree on a final re-authorization bill. There's a good chance this could be completely different in a couple years.

As a previous poster said, make SURE you write your Congressmen / Senators on this. The battle is FAR from over; it's a good START, but it's not a sprint, it's a marathon towards a better industry.

Fly safe, ya'll...

 

[Captain X]

"1500 Hours required to be in an airine cockpit"

Let's all just pray that they don't come up with a literacy requirement...

Dude. The rule only applies to aircraft manufactured in Asia.

 

[atpcliff]

The FAA changes are permanent legislation added on to a temporary funding bill for the FAA. Of course laws can be changed, but these are not "temporary" changes to FAA rules.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Dude. The rule only applies to aircraft manufactured in Asia.

Like the 787 for example?

 

[2000Easyguy]

Dude. The rule only applies to aircraft manufactured in Asia.

Funny!

 

[surplus1]

I'm sure the 3 year hold-off was put in to appease the airline industry who was screaming that they wouldn't be able to staff...

3 Years likely

1. gets them through the worst of the next hiring curve,

Makes sense.

2. gives them time to try to get a Republican President back in office and,

I thought this passed the Senate by acclamation (a miracle) so, what would a Republican President change? Would you expect him to demand that it be repealed if airline management doesn't like it? I guess that's logical seeing as how with a Republican whatever "business" wants, business gets.

3. gives them time to try to get NEW legislation enacted. Remember, this is a TEMPORARY bill, part of a temporary FAA re-authorization bill to continue to give the FAA funding until a majority can agree on a final re-authorization bill. There's a good chance this could be completely different in a couple years.

Perhaps I'm wrong but the way I read it the only part of the legislation that is "temporary" is the FAA funding. All the new "safety rules" are permanent, unless repealed.

As a previous poster said, make SURE you write your Congressmen / Senators on this. The battle is FAR from over; it's a good START, but it's not a sprint, it's a marathon towards a better industry.

Fly safe, ya'll...

What should I ask my Senator to do; have it repealed? Make it tougher? I'm trying to figure out if I should write the Republican or the Democrat. What you think?

No one's mentioned the new investigation and upcoming rules on commuting. What will happen when they tell you all ya can't commute any more [because ya can't comply with the new rest rules]? Should be fun.

 

[pilotyip]

No one's mentioned the new investigation and upcoming rules on commuting. What will happen when they tell you all ya can't commute any more [because ya can't comply with the new rest rules]? Should be fun.

New rule 8 hours prior to duty assignment pilot must report to company barracks and be locked in a room to ensure you are resting.

 

[Auburn MD Flyer]

I have no problem with those that commute into rest before their duty period begins. But then, why is it that a company can DH a crew for 12 hours (on the company aircraft) on an 8-hour international flight, and proceed right into "operating" the 2nd continuation leg of another international flight.... and think that it is safe???

 

[Lear70]

I thought this passed the Senate by acclamation (a miracle) so, what would a Republican President change? Would you expect him to demand that it be repealed if airline management doesn't like it? I guess that's logical seeing as how with a Republican whatever "business" wants, business gets.

Exactly.

Perhaps I'm wrong but the way I read it the only part of the legislation that is "temporary" is the FAA funding. All the new "safety rules" are permanent, unless repealed.

That's what I'm concerned about, that the rules would be repealed, softened, then put back in the permanent funding bill and leave us with something even *MORE* watered down than they already put in there.

What should I ask my Senator to do; have it repealed? Make it tougher? I'm trying to figure out if I should write the Republican or the Democrat. What you think?

Make it tougher, or at least not allow any softening of the rules. Don't like the loophole for academic reduction of experience, as there's no LIMITS to how much "reduction" there can be - for all we know the FAA could cut it in HALF. They leave it completely up to the FAA, and we know how much of a help THEY have been in fixing the safety issues in our system... Not.

No one's mentioned the new investigation and upcoming rules on commuting. What will happen when they tell you all ya can't commute any more [because ya can't comply with the new rest rules]? Should be fun.

Won't happen. The airlines would melt down, at least until they hired more people. Too many pilots would say "I don't think so" and simply start calling in sick en masse every 3rd or 4th trip to get their days off back from having to commute in a day early for every trip.

I put my comments in the system (senate.gov) and ended up getting a phone call from my Senator several months ago on this issue - not just a staffer, my actual Senator - out of the blue, shocked the heck out of me.

I explained very clearly to him that unless they planed to buy us homes in our domicile equivalent to what we have where we live now (pretty expensive in NY, D.C., L.A., etc), pay our moving expenses, and buy our previous homes back at previous market values, that most pilots based in those major cities couldn't afford to be FORCED to live in their domiciles.

Furthermore, REQUIRING us to move would be essentially depriving us of our homes and forcing us into servitude, both of which are basically unconstitutional - forced relocations haven't worked out so well in this country.

I also explained to him what would happen if he made it to where pilots were forced to give up even MORE days away from home to commute to work early - they would demand it BACK from their employers in negotiations, thus dramatically increasing staffing costs at an airline, not to mention the huge number of sick calls. I even discussed my personal situation - having a child I share joint custody of here in Nashville. You can BET MONEY that I'm not going to give up my time with him, and there are thousands of other divorced dads in similar boats - we simply can't move.

If pilots have shown us one thing over the years, it's that they'll GET their days off back, one way or another. You can mess with a lot of things and a pilot will still peacefully come to work... even his pay... but mess with his days off dramatically,,, bad things happen.

 

[Lear70]

New rule 8 hours prior to duty assignment pilot must report to company barracks and be locked in a room to ensure you are resting.

No, that's just the YIP freight operators...