135 Scabs

[hawkerjet]

Well not technically, but can anyone come up with a better word describing the following.. I have noticed that there has been a slight increase in the number of pilots joining our ranks in the 135 field that have retired from another profession. This alone does not bother me but some of them have a good pension from their previous jobs and offer to work for below prevailing wage. I know of an several ex military guys as well as several ex cops in the socal area alone. i've brought it to their attention and it doesn't seem to bother them.
I don't think it's right but does anyone else agree with me. while i respect the men & women in uniform (I'm also a vet) i don't agree with a senior flight officer retiring from the service and whoring himself out for well below industry norms and contract rates.
I don't mean to offend the military rank and file; and if you are offended, it is not my intention, it's the few that work below established norms. by below norms i mean a Chief Pilot making below $80,000 that oversee's more than 12 planes including Gulfstreams, and another DO making below $60,000 working for an even larger company.

 

[Captain Morgan]

And what is wrong with offending people? Maybe some people need to be offended once in a while. Maybe these people are due to be offended. Don't worry about what people think. If you feel something is wrong, it probably is. I agree with you. Thank you military personel. Please don't rape our civilian jobs, and don't expect those of us to hand over our "women" because you were/are military. Even though I specifically talked about some military persons, this offending should be applied to alot of civillian persons as well.

 

[pilotyip]

Isn't the word SCAB defined as a person who crosses a picket line to take the job of someone on strike. How is a military guy doing a job he likes for a wage agreed upon with his employer have anything to do wit hbeing a SCAB?

 

[Spooky 1]

While I agree with hawkerjets issue I also think the term Scab is thrown around on this site with little thought about the history or relationship it has to reality.

Yes, these guys should not be underminding the local economy by selling their service for less than the traditional going rate. However, who sets that rate and how would one even know if it was significantly below sacle for that position? Not sure if you are talking about traditional salary numbers or daily contract numbers? Also, outside of FedEx, not sure if anyone has a good pension anymore?

 

[Buckeye]

I don't know how to define it, but the same thing happens where I live. I live near a large Air Force base that has thousands of retired military guys whom do the same. The problem is they don't need the money but want to fly so bad the often say hey I will do it for less. They don't think they are doing anything wrong, but what happens is they lower the civilian wages in the area. It affects the civy guys trying to make a living. Aviation is like a drug, we the pilots are the users that need the fix, and the owners are the dealers that have the stuff. Sometimes when some one needs a bad fix the sell out, it happens. I hope you like the analogy. imp:

 

[Spooky 1]

On target for sure.

 

[avbug]

I've seen that many times...folks with an adequate income from pension or prior sources, who prostitute themselves and lower the bar...often saying they're glad they can afford to take such a poor paying job, thanks to their past. Others who say they'll work for free, because they really just want something to do. Others who work alongside pilots who are working hand to mouth and trying to survive, but brag how well they're doing because of the double dip and pension.

Scab might not be the right term, but those who lower the bar and justify it based on their other income are no friends to those of us who have put in out lifetime building up the industry, nor to the industry themselves.

I have little tolerance or respect for one who sees the job as mere intertainment...for some of us, it's been our life, and will continue to be. Some of us live here...and don't exist for the intertainment of others who have no qualms interloping with no second thought for us, or the future of the industry.

 

[Spooky 1]

I've seen that many times...folks with an adequate income from pension or prior sources, who prostitute themselves and lower the bar...often saying they're glad they can afford to take such a poor paying job, thanks to their past. Others who say they'll work for free, because they really just want something to do. Others who work alongside pilots who are working hand to mouth and trying to survive, but brag how well they're doing because of the double dip and pension.

Scab might not be the right term, but those who lower the bar and justify it based on their other income are no friends to those of us who have put in out lifetime building up the industry, nor to the industry themselves.

I have little tolerance or respect for one who sees the job as mere intertainment...for some of us, it's been our life, and will continue to be. Some of us live here...and don't exist for the intertainment of others who have no qualms interloping with no second thought for us, or the future of the industry.

So now that we acknowledge the problem, how do we stop or discourage it without creating some further debacle that only exacerbates the original problem?

 

[LJDRVR]

Scab might not be the right term,

SCAB is not the right term. SCABs cross a picket line to steal your job. Period. The S-word is thrown around quite a bit here on the board, rarely in the proper context. While I agree with you guys that lowering the bar by being willing to work for less is a real problem, let's not try to paint everybody with the same paintbrush. SCAB's are several orders of magnitude worse than even lowlifes such as alter ego carrier pilots.

Hawkerjet, you've outlined a serious problem that effects those of you in the on-demand part of our industry. The worst are contract pilots willing to undercut everybody trying to make a living by whoring themselves out at daily rates in the neighborhood of half what they should be charging. The problem there is scumbag operators willing to save a couple of hundred dollars by hiring some lowlife dreg of an aviator.

You really do get what you pay for.

 

[Spooky 1]

SCAB is not the right term. SCABs cross a picket line to steal your job. Period. The S-word is thrown around quite a bit here on the board, rarely in the proper context. While I agree with you guys that lowering the bar by being willing to work for less is a real problem, let's not try to paint everybody with the same paintbrush. SCAB's are several orders of magnitude worse than even lowlifes such as alter ego carrier pilots.

Hawkerjet, you've outlined a serious problem that effects those of you in the on-demand part of our industry. The worst are contract pilots willing to undercut everybody trying to make a living by whoring themselves out at daily rates in the neighborhood of half what they should be charging. The problem there is scumbag operators willing to save a couple of hundred dollars by hiring some lowlife dreg of an aviator.

You really do get what you pay for.

Okay.....I go back to my last post and at the same time agre that the word Scab should be deleted from this post competely as all it does is exacerbate the problem and further alienate the guys that are participating in this practice. Maybe I am naive, but I bet some of these pilots don't even realize what they are doing to the rest of the profession. I would sign on to the thought that because a contarctor is selling his services cheap, that it reflects on his ability as I thinkwe would be going down a slippery slope if we simply said that cheap equates to low standards.

So back to the original question? How do we convince others that there is a standard pay scale for their services within a certain geographical area that should not be sold for less. Not even sure that the geography should be a player for that matter since once your in the air, everyones is on a level playing field.

Ideas are welcomed, as I think this is a real issue for many of the corporate community pilots.