135 Rest Requirements

[jergar999]

Excerpt from 14 CFR Part 135:

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight when added to any other commercial flying by that flight crewmember may not exceed—

(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this part for the operation being conducted.

(c) A flight crewmember's flight time may exceed the flight time limits of paragraph (b) of this section if the assigned flight time occurs during a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours and—

(1) If this duty period is immediately preceded by and followed by a required rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours of rest;

(2) If flight time is assigned during this period, that total flight time when added to any other commercial flying by the flight crewmember may not exceed—

(i) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(ii) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots; and

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but doesn't is say in legalease that you can't exceed 10 hours for a two pilot crew unless it falls within a 14 hour duty day and doesn't exceed ten hours? This really has me scratching my head. I am studying for my six month ride and no amount of reading and re-reading this section brings clarity.

 

[pilotyip]

Read into it assigned, if it is reasonable and assigned it is legal to go, if there are unforeseen delays you may go over the 14 hours. The old adage legal to start legal to finish applies here If you are too fatigued and cannot safely do the trip you call fatigue.

 

[CRACKHEAD]

10 hours

You cannot be assigned to anything over 10 hours, but if you are delayed due to weather, etc. beyond 10 hours it's not your fault and you can complete your mission, but now you must get a minimum of 10 hours rest. I think that's the part you're not getting!

 

[IH8MESA]

Yip,
I know of you high aviation knowledge, but in indoc our DO said there is no way to bust 14 hrs duty day. He says that if you are expecting any delay that will put you over 14 you must cancel. Is he wrong? Just curious cuz now I am lost.

 

[pilotyip]

Expecting?

If you plan it for under 14 hours, but are expecting a delay to put you over 14 hours, that would be a known delay and not legal. You can not plan over 14 hours, but if the delay is unexpected then you are legal to start you are legal to finish, that is 135, 121 is different. We have been doing it for over 15 years, never a problem with the Feds.

 

[soarby007]

The ten hours is flying time. I don't know from reading your post what you are trying to determine. Duty day, or flight time? In any case, there are smarter guys than me that can answer your legalese.

 

[jergar999]

It seems to me like paragraph (b) says that you can fly more than 10 hours in 14 duty as long as it doesn't exceed 10 hours (per paragraph (c)).

The extended rest requirements for going over the 14 are covered in the next section.

Maybe to add some clarity, this all started with the question: "Can you fly more than 10 hours if it falls within a 14 hour duty day?"

 

[flipper66]

Maybe I can muddy the waters. you have "fly more than 10 hours in 14 duty as long as it doesn't exceed 10 hours" but it should be "you cant exceed 10 hours of flight (2 pilot) in any consecutive _24_ unless the excess occurs in a regularly scheduled 14 hour duty period proceeded by 10 consecutive hours of rest. Ex:you are scheduled for duty from 1200-0200z on the 1st and 1200-0200z on the 2nd. 0n the 1st your fly 10 hours of flight. the flight ends at 0100z on the second.you then get your 10 hours of rest. you go at on duty 1200z on the second. you fly a 10 hour leg from 1300z-2300z . your have now flown 11 hours in 24 consecutive hours. you gohome and get 10 more consecutive hours of rest. You are legal because you had 10 consecutive hours of rest between your 2 regularly scheduled 14 hour duty periods. I'm not sure how the feds look it... but one key phrase is "regularly scheduled" some of us (Air ambulance) are on call 24/7 and therefore aren't necessarily "regularly scheduled."

 

[rthepilot]

Guys, I have witnessed 3 FAA Inspectors almost come to blows over the interpretation of this one Reg. So, like always, they expect US to know all the regs but they themselves can't figure this mumbo jumbo out! It seems to be in the eye of the beholder.
The truth of the matter is, in REAL life, twisting and bending regs is a matter of fact in the pursuit of THE MONEY, THE MONEY, THE MONEY!
I could be wrong; but that's what I've seen for 20 years.

 

[kingairyahoo]

over 14 duty time...dont do it...i dont care if its planned or unplanned...dont do it.

same goes for 10 hours of flight...sounds simplistic i know, but keeps everything nice and legal

 

[Singlecoil]

In a nutshell: You can't exceed 10 hours of flying in 2 pilot operations between rest periods. The only time you can exceed 10 hours of flying in a 24 hour period is when you are on a scheduled duty day of 14 hours that is immediately preceded by a 10 hour rest period. When you are on a regularly scheduled duty day of 14 hours, you don't have to play the look back game of what did you do yesterday. The regs are clear that you can't depart on your last leg if you will exceed the 10 hour flight limit at the completion of that flight.

 

[turning2]

In a nutshell: You can't exceed 10 hours of flying in 2 pilot operations between rest periods.

The regs are clear that you can't depart on your last leg if you will exceed the 10 hour flight limit at the completion of that flight.

Yes and no. Perhaps I've misread what has been talked about but you can exceed the 10hrs so long as it is 91.. as in a repo leg / tail end ferry at the END.

For instance. Repo somewhere to pick up a trip, it is 91 but is included in the 10hrs and as others have stated you can not exceed that time limit at the end of the day as a revenue leg. Unscheduled delays such as holding or being rerouted such that your 10hrs is exceeded is permissible.

Second case. Now, if you repo or not on the first leg it doesn't matter. So long as you are planned to complete the revenue portion within the 10hr time frame you are good. Saying that, you complete your revenue portion of the trip and have accumulated 9.8 hrs of flight time. There is a trip the following day (and you will get the proper rest between) you are permitted to fly above 10hrs and repo for the trip the next day as it is 91 and provided you deem yourself fit to fly (not fatigued)

I've probably confused things even further.... sorry if that is the case.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ask 5 Feds at the FSDO about duty and rest requirements, you'll get 6 answers.......

Assumptions: Two pilot on-demand Part 135 operation. Required prospective rest before the trip was given and any compensatory rest if required after the trip is given.

Flight Time: Let's say you PLAN Point A to Point B to Point C. A to B plans at 5 hours. B to C plans at 4:50. Are you legal? Absolutely.

You fly the trip and you hold due to weather on leg A to B and actually block (and it IS block by the way, not flight) 5:30. Can you fly leg B to C? According to our company and a lot of FSDO inspectors, yes. Because you PLANNED to perform the trip legally and the weather hold was beyond the control of the operator. Legal to start, legal to finish.

Duty Time: Let's say the same trip with show time, quick turn and shutdown PLANS at 13:50 duty. Are you legal for the trip? Absolutely. You have your weather delay on A to B and will now go over 14 duty. Same as above. You PLANNED legal duty and weather was beyond the control of the operator.

Now, the passenger (like one of our notorious singers) is late and you'll go over 14 hours of duty after the second leg. Can you fly leg 2? By my way of thinking, NO. You'll have plenty of time to arrange a crew or aircraft change at the midpoint for the second leg. This is where the grey area creeps in. Our company claims (and the POI has approved) that passenger delays are BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE OPERATOR. I don't hold with the interpretation but there it is.

Interestingly, there has been a specific request to the FAA to issue a binding opinion on whether late passengers are within or beyond the control of the operator. I'm patiently waiting for the decision.

As to the tail-end Part 91 ferry legs "not counting" against flight OR duty time restrictions, some Feds say no problem, others say once Part 135 for the day (or 91K), 135 or 91K for the whole day. Unfortunately, my company subscribes to the "no worries" school of tail end 91. On the other hand, my company also has to ask the crew to do it and there haven't been any negative repercussions every time I have said no.

I would say the scenario listed above is one of the more common examples of these regulations coming into play. I long for the day the Part 135 re-write is complete and the regulations are clear, concise, and no longer subject to interpretation by a particular FSDO inspector's biases. But that would put too many lawyers out of business so I know I'm living in a dream world....

Happy lawyering.....er, flying.

 

[Nolife]

Maybe I can muddy the waters. you have "fly more than 10 hours in 14 duty as long as it doesn't exceed 10 hours" but it should be "you cant exceed 10 hours of flight (2 pilot) in any consecutive _24_ unless the excess occurs in a regularly scheduled 14 hour duty period proceeded by 10 consecutive hours of rest. Ex:you are scheduled for duty from 1200-0200z on the 1st and 1200-0200z on the 2nd. 0n the 1st your fly 10 hours of flight. the flight ends at 0100z on the second.you then get your 10 hours of rest. you go at on duty 1200z on the second. you fly a 10 hour leg from 1300z-2300z . your have now flown 11 hours in 24 consecutive hours. you gohome and get 10 more consecutive hours of rest. You are legal because you had 10 consecutive hours of rest between your 2 regularly scheduled 14 hour duty periods. I'm not sure how the feds look it... but one key phrase is "regularly scheduled" some of us (Air ambulance) are on call 24/7 and therefore aren't necessarily "regularly scheduled."

Flipper is right. The reg is allowing more than 8 or 10 hrs flight in 24 hrs if you have the proper rest for regularly schedules ops (example: Cape Air), this means that the combination of the flight time in two duty periods may exceed 8 or 10 hrs. This doesn't apply to unscheduled ops, meaning that before you can start your next trip you must have dropped enough time so to not exceed the 8 or 10 hrs in 24.

 

[soarby007]

The reg cited is 135.267...unscheduled.

 

[pilotyip]

as stated before good to start; good to finish

 

[rthepilot]

Sir, that is ABSOLUTELY true! Today, it's ALL about Power, Ego, Insecurity and Ass-Kissing.

 

[CelticCitation]

Maybe this is off topic, but has anyone had this come up during an ARGUS Platinum inspection?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Does anyone have any updates on the re-write of -135/-125 timetable?
Like, will anything EVER happen???

cliff
LRD

PS-Don't forget about 135.734a47, which states that -135 operators can do whatever they want as long as there's no crash, in which case the pilots and the -135 operator lose their licenses and certificates.

 

[remo]

Ask 5 Feds at the FSDO about duty and rest requirements, you'll get 6 answers.......

Assumptions: Two pilot on-demand Part 135 operation. Required prospective rest before the trip was given and any compensatory rest if required after the trip is given.

Flight Time: Let's say you PLAN Point A to Point B to Point C. A to B plans at 5 hours. B to C plans at 4:50. Are you legal? Absolutely.

You fly the trip and you hold due to weather on leg A to B and actually block (and it IS block by the way, not flight) 5:30. Can you fly leg B to C? According to our company and a lot of FSDO inspectors, yes. Because you PLANNED to perform the trip legally and the weather hold was beyond the control of the operator. Legal to start, legal to finish.

I think that "legal to start, legal to finish" is applied to each leg vice the entire trip. Just like the "pax being late" scam, there may have been a minor incident where "Beyond the operator's control" was found to be OK, however, you bend metal or someone gets hurt, be assured that the "Crew was not legal to start the flight" statement will appear in the final report.
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