135 Rest Requirements

[Singlecoil]

In a nutshell: You can't exceed 10 hours of flying in 2 pilot operations between rest periods. The only time you can exceed 10 hours of flying in a 24 hour period is when you are on a scheduled duty day of 14 hours that is immediately preceded by a 10 hour rest period. When you are on a regularly scheduled duty day of 14 hours, you don't have to play the look back game of what did you do yesterday. The regs are clear that you can't depart on your last leg if you will exceed the 10 hour flight limit at the completion of that flight.

 

[turning2]

In a nutshell: You can't exceed 10 hours of flying in 2 pilot operations between rest periods.

The regs are clear that you can't depart on your last leg if you will exceed the 10 hour flight limit at the completion of that flight.

Yes and no. Perhaps I've misread what has been talked about but you can exceed the 10hrs so long as it is 91.. as in a repo leg / tail end ferry at the END.

For instance. Repo somewhere to pick up a trip, it is 91 but is included in the 10hrs and as others have stated you can not exceed that time limit at the end of the day as a revenue leg. Unscheduled delays such as holding or being rerouted such that your 10hrs is exceeded is permissible.

Second case. Now, if you repo or not on the first leg it doesn't matter. So long as you are planned to complete the revenue portion within the 10hr time frame you are good. Saying that, you complete your revenue portion of the trip and have accumulated 9.8 hrs of flight time. There is a trip the following day (and you will get the proper rest between) you are permitted to fly above 10hrs and repo for the trip the next day as it is 91 and provided you deem yourself fit to fly (not fatigued)

I've probably confused things even further.... sorry if that is the case.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ask 5 Feds at the FSDO about duty and rest requirements, you'll get 6 answers.......

Assumptions: Two pilot on-demand Part 135 operation. Required prospective rest before the trip was given and any compensatory rest if required after the trip is given.

Flight Time: Let's say you PLAN Point A to Point B to Point C. A to B plans at 5 hours. B to C plans at 4:50. Are you legal? Absolutely.

You fly the trip and you hold due to weather on leg A to B and actually block (and it IS block by the way, not flight) 5:30. Can you fly leg B to C? According to our company and a lot of FSDO inspectors, yes. Because you PLANNED to perform the trip legally and the weather hold was beyond the control of the operator. Legal to start, legal to finish.

Duty Time: Let's say the same trip with show time, quick turn and shutdown PLANS at 13:50 duty. Are you legal for the trip? Absolutely. You have your weather delay on A to B and will now go over 14 duty. Same as above. You PLANNED legal duty and weather was beyond the control of the operator.

Now, the passenger (like one of our notorious singers) is late and you'll go over 14 hours of duty after the second leg. Can you fly leg 2? By my way of thinking, NO. You'll have plenty of time to arrange a crew or aircraft change at the midpoint for the second leg. This is where the grey area creeps in. Our company claims (and the POI has approved) that passenger delays are BEYOND THE CONTROL OF THE OPERATOR. I don't hold with the interpretation but there it is.

Interestingly, there has been a specific request to the FAA to issue a binding opinion on whether late passengers are within or beyond the control of the operator. I'm patiently waiting for the decision.

As to the tail-end Part 91 ferry legs "not counting" against flight OR duty time restrictions, some Feds say no problem, others say once Part 135 for the day (or 91K), 135 or 91K for the whole day. Unfortunately, my company subscribes to the "no worries" school of tail end 91. On the other hand, my company also has to ask the crew to do it and there haven't been any negative repercussions every time I have said no.

I would say the scenario listed above is one of the more common examples of these regulations coming into play. I long for the day the Part 135 re-write is complete and the regulations are clear, concise, and no longer subject to interpretation by a particular FSDO inspector's biases. But that would put too many lawyers out of business so I know I'm living in a dream world....

Happy lawyering.....er, flying.

 

[Nolife]

Maybe I can muddy the waters. you have "fly more than 10 hours in 14 duty as long as it doesn't exceed 10 hours" but it should be "you cant exceed 10 hours of flight (2 pilot) in any consecutive _24_ unless the excess occurs in a regularly scheduled 14 hour duty period proceeded by 10 consecutive hours of rest. Ex:you are scheduled for duty from 1200-0200z on the 1st and 1200-0200z on the 2nd. 0n the 1st your fly 10 hours of flight. the flight ends at 0100z on the second.you then get your 10 hours of rest. you go at on duty 1200z on the second. you fly a 10 hour leg from 1300z-2300z . your have now flown 11 hours in 24 consecutive hours. you gohome and get 10 more consecutive hours of rest. You are legal because you had 10 consecutive hours of rest between your 2 regularly scheduled 14 hour duty periods. I'm not sure how the feds look it... but one key phrase is "regularly scheduled" some of us (Air ambulance) are on call 24/7 and therefore aren't necessarily "regularly scheduled."

Flipper is right. The reg is allowing more than 8 or 10 hrs flight in 24 hrs if you have the proper rest for regularly schedules ops (example: Cape Air), this means that the combination of the flight time in two duty periods may exceed 8 or 10 hrs. This doesn't apply to unscheduled ops, meaning that before you can start your next trip you must have dropped enough time so to not exceed the 8 or 10 hrs in 24.

 

[soarby007]

The reg cited is 135.267...unscheduled.

 

[pilotyip]

as stated before good to start; good to finish

 

[rthepilot]

Sir, that is ABSOLUTELY true! Today, it's ALL about Power, Ego, Insecurity and Ass-Kissing.

 

[CelticCitation]

Maybe this is off topic, but has anyone had this come up during an ARGUS Platinum inspection?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Does anyone have any updates on the re-write of -135/-125 timetable?
Like, will anything EVER happen???

cliff
LRD

PS-Don't forget about 135.734a47, which states that -135 operators can do whatever they want as long as there's no crash, in which case the pilots and the -135 operator lose their licenses and certificates.

 

[remo]

Ask 5 Feds at the FSDO about duty and rest requirements, you'll get 6 answers.......

Assumptions: Two pilot on-demand Part 135 operation. Required prospective rest before the trip was given and any compensatory rest if required after the trip is given.

Flight Time: Let's say you PLAN Point A to Point B to Point C. A to B plans at 5 hours. B to C plans at 4:50. Are you legal? Absolutely.

You fly the trip and you hold due to weather on leg A to B and actually block (and it IS block by the way, not flight) 5:30. Can you fly leg B to C? According to our company and a lot of FSDO inspectors, yes. Because you PLANNED to perform the trip legally and the weather hold was beyond the control of the operator. Legal to start, legal to finish.

I think that "legal to start, legal to finish" is applied to each leg vice the entire trip. Just like the "pax being late" scam, there may have been a minor incident where "Beyond the operator's control" was found to be OK, however, you bend metal or someone gets hurt, be assured that the "Crew was not legal to start the flight" statement will appear in the final report.
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