Some NetJets Pilots getting unsolicited job info from Flex/FO

[AirBear8]

Was reading the NJASAP pilot message board today and saw 3 NetJets Pilots post that they received unsolicited cards encouraging them to apply at Flex/FO. This is just 3 who happened across a particular message on the board which probably only half the pilots even log onto on a regular basis. So I'm sure more than 3 got the cards. What's funny is in 2 of the 3 cases their last names were totally incorrect :erm:

I'm sure Flex got the names off some FAA database but it's pretty telling that they're having to resort to basic "Cold Calling". And whoever's doing it can't even keep the names straight.

If they're having to resort to this now, what's it going to be like if the Union is decertified?

 

[CALRepublic]

yeah. I got one too.

I just bought a house. No idea how the hell they got my new adress

 

[MOMOMOJO]

A buddy of mine got this card. I thought it was a joke. Said he called to inquire and they offered him direct entry Captain positions in to big metal with signing bonuses.

So if we decertify that could actually happen.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

 

[AirBear8]

If they decert the only pilots they'll get will be ones like in the NTSB reports from the Hawker 700 crash @CAK and the LearJet@TEB. For those who haven't read those reports both sets of pilots had very poor employment and training records. The TEB pilots both had arrest records, the PIC for Assault with a Deadly Weapon that he never disclosed on his medical and the SIC for illegal drag racing and assaulting a Police Officer. He had disclosed that on his initial medical but not on all the ones afterwards.

I don't have a "dog" in the decert fight as I'm 61 and on indefinite medical LOA, unlikely to return to aviation. But I'm genuinely curious to hear from a Pro-Decert Pilot about Pilot recruiting after a Decert. If they're reduced to "cold calling" now how will they recruit quality 1500+ hour pilots?

 

[squawk]

If they decert the only pilots they'll get will be ones like in the NTSB reports from the Hawker 700 crash @CAK and the LearJet@TEB. For those who haven't read those reports both sets of pilots had very poor employment and training records. The TEB pilots both had arrest records, the PIC for Assault with a Deadly Weapon that he never disclosed on his medical and the SIC for illegal drag racing and assaulting a Police Officer. He had disclosed that on his initial medical but not on all the ones afterwards.

I don't have a "dog" in the decert fight as I'm 61 and on indefinite medical LOA, unlikely to return to aviation. But I'm genuinely curious to hear from a Pro-Decert Pilot about Pilot recruiting after a Decert. If they're reduced to "cold calling" now how will they recruit quality 1500+ hour pilots?

With a $100,000 salary.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

With a $100,000 salary.

Until one of those low time inexperienced pilots kills someone and then the entire business crashes along with him.

But okay have it your way squawk. Good luck with that.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Yeah, Flops DBA Flexjet has a lot of trouble keeping planes on runways as is let alone dodging hail.

 

[AirBear8]

If they offer a $100K starting salary they'll get some A-Teamer's to work for them. Pilots who won't call in fatigued no matter what and won't write up Mx problems without phoning the Mothership for permission. There's always a percentage of pilots who are like that at any carrier, union or non-union. But I doubt they'll get enough to staff their operation, especially if the pro-union pilots leave in substantial numbers.

At NetJets F/O's can break $100K in about 4-5 years depending on which schedule. Sooner if you factor in the great benefits. I expect that pay will go up if FO raises their pay to 100K. Pilots aren't exactly knocking down the doors to work at NJA right now. But at least I haven't heard of NJA doing any "cold calling" LOL.

 

[rajflyboy]

If they decert the only pilots they'll get will be ones like in the NTSB reports from the Hawker 700 crash @CAK and the LearJet@TEB. For those who haven't read those reports both sets of pilots had very poor employment and training records. The TEB pilots both had arrest records, the PIC for Assault with a Deadly Weapon that he never disclosed on his medical and the SIC for illegal drag racing and assaulting a Police Officer. He had disclosed that on his initial medical but not on all the ones afterwards.

I don't have a "dog" in the decert fight as I'm 61 and on indefinite medical LOA, unlikely to return to aviation. But I'm genuinely curious to hear from a Pro-Decert Pilot about Pilot recruiting after a Decert. If they're reduced to "cold calling" now how will they recruit quality 1500+ hour pilots?

CAK crash and UPS crash in BHM are near identical crashes

TEB crash = got too slow (the rest .... who cares)

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

If they offer a $100K starting salary they'll get some A-Teamer's to work for them. Pilots who won't call in fatigued no matter what and won't write up Mx problems without phoning the Mothership for permission. There's always a percentage of pilots who are like that at any carrier, union or non-union. But I doubt they'll get enough to staff their operation, especially if the pro-union pilots leave in substantial numbers.

At NetJets F/O's can break $100K in about 4-5 years depending on which schedule. Sooner if you factor in the great benefits. I expect that pay will go up if FO raises their pay to 100K. Pilots aren't exactly knocking down the doors to work at NJA right now. But at least I haven't heard of NJA doing any "cold calling" LOL.

Maybe they can get a telemarketing firm to cold call 80-90 year old former pilots to gimp on down to the airport and stuff themselves into one of those $hitty Phenoms for 35K per year.imp:

 

[MOMOMOJO]

Maybe they can get a telemarketing firm to cold call 80-90 year old former pilots to gimp on down to the airport and stuff themselves into one of those $hitty Phenoms for 35K per year.imp:

What - are you applying for the job as the new VP for Pilot Recruitment? With suggestions like that you're likely to get hired.

 

[squawk]

...and where was the PIC during your hypothetical crash caused by the low time copilot?

 

[EnFuego]

...and where was the PIC during your hypothetical crash caused by the low time copilot?

The PIC was the low time pilot hired directly into the Left seat.

 

[squawk]

Owner contract would prohibit that

 

[MOMOMOJO]

Squawk is one of those demigod pilots who thinks his dazzling skills are enough to outshine any crm deficiency.

Like I said earlier squawk, good luck with that. Just remember pride alone does not keep you from falling off the cliff.

 

[shanes123]

Owner contract would prohibit that

Hahahahahahaha. That’s funny. Contracts are legal documents that have a lot of grey interpretation. Just ask 2NN I believe that was pretty close to a quote straight from the horses teeth’s mouth

 

[MagnumPI]

Hahahahahahaha. That’s funny. Contracts are legal documents that have a lot of grey interpretation. Just ask 2NN I believe that was pretty close to a quote straight from the horses teeth’s mouth

Using Kenn’s philosophy, he will try to get away with as much as possible, and if the company gets sued or brought into court, well that’s just the cost of doing business. Kenn breaks contracts all the time and plays the odds. What makes anyone think that he will stop this behavior without a union on property? My bet is that he will double down without a union.

 

[EnFuego]

Owner contract would prohibit that

:laugh: Like the "Individual Employment Agreement"? and the "protection of the FOM"? You are making a joke...right?

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Hahahahahahaha. That’s funny. Contracts are legal documents that have a lot of grey interpretation. Just ask 2NN I believe that was pretty close to a quote straight from the horses teeth’s mouth

Say what mutha****a?

 

[squawk]

There is an obvious difference. A contract with a billionaire owner may be just a tad different than any other company agreement.

- - - Updated - - -

Squawk is one of those demigod pilots who thinks his dazzling skills are enough to outshine any crm deficiency.

Like I said earlier squawk, good luck with that. Just remember pride alone does not keep you from falling off the cliff.

It depends on what kind of aircraft commander you are. Are you a Co-Captain? Then you may be the deficient one. Be careful with that.

There is is no grey area here. There is one person in command of that aircraft. The Captain. Don’t ever forget that.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

There is an obvious difference. A contract with a billionaire owner may be just a tad different than any other company agreement.

- - - Updated - - -



It depends on what kind of aircraft commander you are. Are you a Co-Captain? Then you may be the deficient one. Be careful with that.

There is is no grey area here. There is one person in command of that aircraft. The Captain. Don’t ever forget that.

That's the dumbest response I've seen yet. I don't think your widow (or your owners family) gives a rats ass about seats. If bad CRM due to either a deficient pilot (in any seat) or a PIC who thinks he's immune to falling victim to another's deficiency results in an accident, well dead is dead.

You're acting like a fool when you double down on arrogance.

There is a reason these aircraft are typed for 2 pilots.

 

[rajflyboy]

Darn

160g to fly a beautiful Global all over the world for 7 or 8 days in a row? Damn I’m game for that.... wait a second.....a possibility of no union means the pilots will have no contract requiring the company to get me home on my last day (I will be out for weeks at a time).

NO THANKS ...... I will take that Wall Mart greeter job instead and stay home with my family each night.

 

[squawk]

That's the dumbest response I've seen yet. I don't think your widow (or your owners family) gives a rats ass about seats. If bad CRM due to either a deficient pilot (in any seat) or a PIC who thinks he's immune to falling victim to another's deficiency results in an accident, well dead is dead.

You're acting like a fool when you double down on arrogance.

There is a reason these aircraft are typed for 2 pilots.

you might want to review the legal definition of pilot in command.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Darn

160g to fly a beautiful Global all over the world for 7 or 8 days in a row? Damn I’m game for that.... wait a second.....a possibility of no union means the pilots will have no contract requiring the company to get me home on my last day (I will be out for weeks at a time).

NO THANKS ...... I will take that Wall Mart greeter job instead and stay home with my family each night.

FWIW, You don't always get home after 8 days, and the Red Herring program doesn't pay overtime. No thanks. I'll stick with a contract that is fair and not filled with gimmicks.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

you might want to review the legal definition of pilot in command.

There you go tripling down on your arrogance with an even dumber response.

Reality does not care about your dictionary. The fact is even little g god pilots like yourself are still human and mortal.

Life has a way of humbling people like you squawk. It's so much easier to just do it yourself first.

 

[squawk]

There you go tripling down on your arrogance with an even dumber response.

Reality does not care about your dictionary. The fact is even little g god pilots like yourself are still human and mortal.

Life has a way of humbling people like you squawk. It's so much easier to just do it yourself first.

Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument.

I was simply responding to a discussion about low time pilots. A good PIC is the stopgap for the safe operation of an aircraft. Try taking your philosophy of downgrading the significance of PIC to the FAA and see how that goes.

You will find it very clear by definition. The authority of a PIC falls under the same rules as a ship’s Captain under maritime law. It is also quite clear in our FOM.

If if you are a Captain and don’t take that seriously then you should not be in the left seat.

 

[EnFuego]

Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument.

I was simply responding to a discussion about low time pilots. A good PIC is the stopgap for the safe operation of an aircraft. Try taking your philosophy of downgrading the significance of PIC to the FAA and see how that goes.

You will find it very clear by definition. The authority of a PIC falls under the same rules as a ship’s Captain under maritime law. It is also quite clear in our FOM.

If if you are a Captain and don’t take that seriously then you should not be in the left seat.

The other side of that is you are not perfect. A good PIC will still miss things. That is why you need a good SIC to complete your crew. The argument you put forth presupposes the PIC will always catch every accident chain. Reality shows that is not the case. Both crew members catch each other's mistakes. And that is where your argument fails. You will not succeed with your single pilot mentality indefinitely. And an attitude of PIC as omnipotent does not make for good CRM. Maybe that is not what you mean to project, but your postings come off that way.

 

[squawk]

The other side of that is you are not perfect. A good PIC will still miss things. That is why you need a good SIC to complete your crew. The argument you put forth presupposes the PIC will always catch every accident chain. Reality shows that is not the case. Both crew members catch each other's mistakes. And that is where your argument fails. You will not succeed with your single pilot mentality indefinitely. And an attitude of PIC as omnipotent does not make for good CRM. Maybe that is not what you mean to project, but your postings come off that way.

You are correct, and that is why these aircraft are certified for two crewmembers. We have a lot of very good SICs at FJ and they do contribute to safety everyday.
That is also clear in the regs and FOM.
We were talking about low time newhires. Until they get up to speed, a strong PIC is crucial.

 

[BlueNose]

There is an obvious difference. A contract with a billionaire owner may be just a tad different than any other company agreement.

Billionaires don't tend to fly fractional, they can afford not to share. The ones who do, fly with NetJets. Why do you think that is? Trust, maybe?

 

[squawk]

Billionaires don't tend to fly fractional, they can afford not to share. The ones who do, fly with NetJets. Why do you think that is? Trust, maybe?

Do you ever run a search to see how these people get to fly this way? We have many billionaires.