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Some NetJets Pilots getting unsolicited job info from Flex/FO

MOMOMOJO

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
There is an obvious difference. A contract with a billionaire owner may be just a tad different than any other company agreement.

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It depends on what kind of aircraft commander you are. Are you a Co-Captain? Then you may be the deficient one. Be careful with that.

There is is no grey area here. There is one person in command of that aircraft. The Captain. Don’t ever forget that.

That's the dumbest response I've seen yet. I don't think your widow (or your owners family) gives a rats ass about seats. If bad CRM due to either a deficient pilot (in any seat) or a PIC who thinks he's immune to falling victim to another's deficiency results in an accident, well dead is dead.

You're acting like a fool when you double down on arrogance.

There is a reason these aircraft are typed for 2 pilots.
 

rajflyboy

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Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Posts
1,797
Total Time
17500
Darn

160g to fly a beautiful Global all over the world for 7 or 8 days in a row? Damn I’m game for that.... wait a second.....a possibility of no union means the pilots will have no contract requiring the company to get me home on my last day (I will be out for weeks at a time).

NO THANKS ...... I will take that Wall Mart greeter job instead and stay home with my family each night.

:D
 

squawk

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Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
That's the dumbest response I've seen yet. I don't think your widow (or your owners family) gives a rats ass about seats. If bad CRM due to either a deficient pilot (in any seat) or a PIC who thinks he's immune to falling victim to another's deficiency results in an accident, well dead is dead.

You're acting like a fool when you double down on arrogance.

There is a reason these aircraft are typed for 2 pilots.

you might want to review the legal definition of pilot in command.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Posts
1,220
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15+
Darn

160g to fly a beautiful Global all over the world for 7 or 8 days in a row? Damn I’m game for that.... wait a second.....a possibility of no union means the pilots will have no contract requiring the company to get me home on my last day (I will be out for weeks at a time).

NO THANKS ...... I will take that Wall Mart greeter job instead and stay home with my family each night.

:D
FWIW, You don't always get home after 8 days, and the Red Herring program doesn't pay overtime. No thanks. I'll stick with a contract that is fair and not filled with gimmicks.
 

MOMOMOJO

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
you might want to review the legal definition of pilot in command.

There you go tripling down on your arrogance with an even dumber response.

Reality does not care about your dictionary. The fact is even little g god pilots like yourself are still human and mortal.

Life has a way of humbling people like you squawk. It's so much easier to just do it yourself first.
 

squawk

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Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
There you go tripling down on your arrogance with an even dumber response.

Reality does not care about your dictionary. The fact is even little g god pilots like yourself are still human and mortal.

Life has a way of humbling people like you squawk. It's so much easier to just do it yourself first.

Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument.

I was simply responding to a discussion about low time pilots. A good PIC is the stopgap for the safe operation of an aircraft. Try taking your philosophy of downgrading the significance of PIC to the FAA and see how that goes.

You will find it very clear by definition. The authority of a PIC falls under the same rules as a ship’s Captain under maritime law. It is also quite clear in our FOM.

If if you are a Captain and don’t take that seriously then you should not be in the left seat.
 

EnFuego

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Posts
125
Ad hominem is the lowest form of argument.

I was simply responding to a discussion about low time pilots. A good PIC is the stopgap for the safe operation of an aircraft. Try taking your philosophy of downgrading the significance of PIC to the FAA and see how that goes.

You will find it very clear by definition. The authority of a PIC falls under the same rules as a ship’s Captain under maritime law. It is also quite clear in our FOM.

If if you are a Captain and don’t take that seriously then you should not be in the left seat.

The other side of that is you are not perfect. A good PIC will still miss things. That is why you need a good SIC to complete your crew. The argument you put forth presupposes the PIC will always catch every accident chain. Reality shows that is not the case. Both crew members catch each other's mistakes. And that is where your argument fails. You will not succeed with your single pilot mentality indefinitely. And an attitude of PIC as omnipotent does not make for good CRM. Maybe that is not what you mean to project, but your postings come off that way.
 

squawk

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Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
The other side of that is you are not perfect. A good PIC will still miss things. That is why you need a good SIC to complete your crew. The argument you put forth presupposes the PIC will always catch every accident chain. Reality shows that is not the case. Both crew members catch each other's mistakes. And that is where your argument fails. You will not succeed with your single pilot mentality indefinitely. And an attitude of PIC as omnipotent does not make for good CRM. Maybe that is not what you mean to project, but your postings come off that way.

You are correct, and that is why these aircraft are certified for two crewmembers. We have a lot of very good SICs at FJ and they do contribute to safety everyday.
That is also clear in the regs and FOM.
We were talking about low time newhires. Until they get up to speed, a strong PIC is crucial.
 

BlueNose

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Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Posts
259
Total Time
Enough
There is an obvious difference. A contract with a billionaire owner may be just a tad different than any other company agreement.

Billionaires don't tend to fly fractional, they can afford not to share. The ones who do, fly with NetJets. Why do you think that is? Trust, maybe?
 
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squawk

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Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
Billionaires don't tend to fly fractional, they can afford not to share. The ones who do, fly with NetJets. Why do you think that is? Trust, maybe?
Do you ever run a search to see how these people get to fly this way? We have many billionaires.
 

MOMOMOJO

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Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Posts
92
Squawk there was no ad hominem attack but rather a reductio ad absurdum. I was simply pointing out your arguments were absurd in the light of reality. If you take it personally I deducted it was because you seemed to be arguing your standards of perfection and self worth are the root of the issue it's not my problem.

It seems you recognize this fact because you've tried to walk back your absurdity in your last couple posts.

Your debate style tends to mirror management and the last few videos we've had thrown at us to decert. It's trying to illicit feelings of pride and arrogance in an attempt to make believers feel like they are one of the few, one of the best. The problem is its all emotional and not rooted in reality. Like the guy in Houston whose dad was a corporate pilot and framed 100% of his knowledge base on it. It's completely irrelevant to the way the fractional model works. Additionally the guy is a high stakes corporate headhunter so his personal professional experience is also not relevant to our situation.

The only emotional reality I'm willing to buy into is the fact dead is dead and low time pilots, regardless of the implied "strength" of a PIC, is a risk I don't feel like being forced into simply because some management team who doesn't have to be in the cockpit decides it works. Additionally, I can only control myself and my cockpit but my career (and yours) at this company would still be destroyed none the less if we had a billionaire (I'll give it to you) die simply because we are being managed into a place of mediocrity at best. If our current hiring standards aren't screaming this fact of a downward trend I don't know what does.
 

squawk

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Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Posts
137
Squawk there was no ad hominem attack but rather a reductio ad absurdum. I was simply pointing out your arguments were absurd in the light of reality. If you take it personally I deducted it was because you seemed to be arguing your standards of perfection and self worth are the root of the issue it's not my problem.

It seems you recognize this fact because you've tried to walk back your absurdity in your last couple posts.

Your debate style tends to mirror management and the last few videos we've had thrown at us to decert. It's trying to illicit feelings of pride and arrogance in an attempt to make believers feel like they are one of the few, one of the best. The problem is its all emotional and not rooted in reality. Like the guy in Houston whose dad was a corporate pilot and framed 100% of his knowledge base on it. It's completely irrelevant to the way the fractional model works. Additionally the guy is a high stakes corporate headhunter so his personal professional experience is also not relevant to our situation.

The only emotional reality I'm willing to buy into is the fact dead is dead and low time pilots, regardless of the implied "strength" of a PIC, is a risk I don't feel like being forced into simply because some management team who doesn't have to be in the cockpit decides it works. Additionally, I can only control myself and my cockpit but my career (and yours) at this company would still be destroyed none the less if we had a billionaire (I'll give it to you) die simply because we are being managed into a place of mediocrity at best. If our current hiring standards aren't screaming this fact of a downward trend I don't know what does.

You are required to report to the nearest drug testing facility.
 

GE6108A

Member
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Sep 6, 2014
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21
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7500
Squawk and lumpy are clearly hired hands. I doubt they are even pilots. I won't even attempt Latin. Douchebags.
 

DirtyBeech

The Last Starfighter
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Posts
782
Total Time
Enough
Squawk and lumpy are clearly hired hands. I doubt they are even pilots. I won't even attempt Latin. Douchebags.

Ductionem
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Sep 20, 2013
Posts
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From a different (SI) website but still relevant:
The two most common are fear of the unknown and fear of not knowing. While these two items may seem similar, they are vastly different. Fear of the unknown is simple—it is not knowing what to expect. Not knowing what to expect puts people in a defensive posture at times, standoffish and not open to change. The best piece of advice I can share is you are not alone. Everyone has been there and what I love about this community is how eager folks are to help. The fear of not knowing is more challenging. This is being afraid to look the fool, to not know what you are doing. Again, you are human and this is normal. My best piece of advice is to keep your eye on the prize. If you are doing this for a reason, stay focused on that reason. Everyone has to start somewhere; remember that.
 
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