Word on the street about flex decertification effort...

[ghostrider64]

That APA, and SWAPA are watching you closely...the translation is you’ll be blackballed if you decertify....

It appears that your efforts might affect more than yourselves and they don’t take kindly to the destruction of decades of improvements through union efforts....

BTW they are sucking up Netjets guys by the dozens...makes go hmmm is decertification worth being despised industry wide....because that’s what they will think of you.

Fell free to opine.....

 

[Club ORD FO]

If we decertify, I doubt we will getting high-fives from other pilots as we walk through the airport.

 

[Lumpsum]

Now who's acting like "Chicken Little"?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

If we decertify, this place will become just a stepping stone. With a perceived risk of being blackballed, who would even risk coming here?

- - - Updated - - -

We will be lucky to keep 50 planes staffed.

 

[rajflyboy]

How do you know who voted not to decertify?

 

[EnFuego]

If the Union is decertified, every pilot on our list will be looked upon as anti union. We will all be tarred with the same brush.

 

[rajflyboy]

If the Union is decertified, every pilot on our list will be looked upon as anti union. We will all be tarred with the same brush.

If you had a yes vote of 51 percent that would mean that 49% voted no and that would be unfair for those folks to be put on some kind of “Bad Boy” list.

 

[EnFuego]

It's not a bad boy list. It's just when they see you worked at Flex on the resume, they know they have a better chance of getting a pilot who has their back if they pick a different candidate. So you never get picked, because no one knows if they can trust you. That's just how it works.

 

[cougar12]

I will be taking a pic of my Vote to prove I support my fellow professional aviators!
It amazes me that there are pilots willing to gamble their career on a management team that manages by carrots and fear!
Onesky Pilots on need to support to one another with out input from management!

Vote 1108 and get involved!

 

[rajflyboy]

It's not a bad boy list. It's just when they see you worked at Flex on the resume, they know they have a better chance of getting a pilot who has their back if they pick a different candidate. So you never get picked, because no one knows if they can trust you. That's just how it works.

that still ain’t fair in this world of political correctness that hard core union people believe in so much

 

[EnFuego]

that still ain’t fair in this world of political correctness that hard core union people believe in so much

More than anything, Union people believe in protecting what they have worked so hard to bargain for. When push comes to shove, if there is a doubt they will protect themselves. Fairness equals self protection.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

that still ain’t fair in this world of political correctness that hard core union people believe in so much

Political correctness? I've never thought the union cares about political correctness. True advocacy and political correctness cannot co-exist.

I'm sure the guys in charge are smart enough to deny the existence of blacklist behavior but we all know the reality is quite different. Aa EnFeugo correctly pointed out the way it will probrably play out is the name Flexjet on your resume will be synonymous with pariah, union buster, traitor. Every major and national hiring committee contains dyed in the wool union members. Advancement recommendations at the early stage are usually always unanimous. Flexjet pilots will simply not be considered. Even if just that one guy passes on you, you're out.

If you choose to look at it as thugly that's your prerogative. But most pilots see it as neccessary. Say you're the seller for an extra piece of property that just happens to be next to your house. One applicant is a child molester and the other is not. Even if the child molester offers more, wouldn't you do everything to avoid his offer? Trust me Flexjet pilots will be looked every bit as disdainfully as the situation I just described.

There will be some who have worked on committees or are in union leadership who's individual names can and will be filtered down to those hiring committee seats on a case by case basis but for the average OneSky/Flexjet/Flight Options pilot that won't be the case.

Brutal yes but absolutely neccessary. Keep your trash outside of your kitchen and you stay free from rats.

KEEP IN MIND EVERY SINGLE PILOT'S UNION HAS SIGNALED THEIR SUPPORT VIA LETTER OR STATEMENT. EVERY SINGLE UNION.

I don't care what JW, RH or even our own Union leadership have to say about it. Right there in the fact they have all sent letters or made statements, even ALPA, is all the proof you need to see what this decertification drive means for the dismal future career prospects for almost every Flexjet pilot if it happens.

Even if you think it's unrealistic, I don't think it's a bet worth taking. Even if I never plan to leave or am too old to consider it, it's not a gamble I'm willing to take on behalf of my colleagues either.

I don't see where there's even a debate at this point.

 

[EnFuego]

You may find you have to leave if they turn this place into the way it was pre Union. Have any of you spoken to the pilots who worked here before? Everyone I have spoken with tells the same brutal story. Switch fleets, go back to year one pay, 100% rolling rest, discipline for legitimate maintenance write ups and constant backstabbing by your coworkers. Grim...

 

[ghostrider64]

How do you know who voted not to decertify?

1108 will have every voter identified, it’s how they confirm you are eligible to vote. I doubt no voters would be invited to any job fairs post decertification....

 

[MOMOMOJO]

1108 will have every voter identified, it’s how they confirm you are eligible to vote. I doubt no voters would be invited to any job fairs post decertification....

I don't think that's accurate. The NMB supplies each side with their list of eligible voters they will send a ballot to and each side can veto names off that list. For instance the union might ask to disallow some voters because although they are on the seniority list they are management. Likewise management might veto some voters because they are no longer employed as of the cutoff date.

The important thing to remember is NO ONE WILL KNOW YOUR VOTE! including management or the IBT. So a vote to decertify in hopes of keeping in management's good graces is a wasted vote. IMHO all votes that do not keep the IBT in place is a huge risk.

What is being predicted will happen (and from what I've been hearing it's more like a guarantee) If the union is decertifies is all Flexjet pilots will be painted with a broad brush and labeled as something just short of a scab. There won't be a list. Simply having Flexjet on your resume puts you in the group.

I heard a rumor it's already happening with some former Flexers who are reaching out to the union to get a MIGS letter so they can join their current union's committees. Apparently if you did not leave Flex as a MIGS you are not eligible to be on a committee with most unions. Current and active participation is the only thing saving their reputations with their new colleagues.

I heard there's even an old Flexer now at SWA who was anti-union but is now getting ready to cut a check and see if he can apply and gets MIGS status post employment. Apparently he is seeing the early signs of this "scarlet letter" already happening.

 

[cougar12]

1108 will have every voter identified, it’s how they confirm you are eligible to vote. I doubt no voters would be invited to any job fairs post decertification....

I know there are pilots making lists of non supporters and sending them to their contacts at other Unions and carriers. I know one of them and his wife is in the HR department of a Major. That is how small Aviation is. Some pilots may think it’s unfair, other pilots realize this industry has great ups and down and if you can’t support the group your with no need to let them bring the plague to another pilot group!

Pilots look out for Pilots! Pilots don’t rely on the wims of Management. The wims of management is exactly what this decert is all about and the FW & PD have pulled this In House bait and switch routine in full colaberation with management. Just look at the constant barrage of company emails, texts and management staged at airport FBO’s to sell the decert!
If Management was truly impartial and stayed out of this Pilots group decision the FW & PD show would have failed before it even started!

 

[shanes123]

Very true. Just had a interview with a carrier. They seemed to know what’s going on here and carefully tried to feel out my stance. I’m sure a call to 1108 to check my standing will be coming. I would recommend every mig get a letter from the 1108 and take a pic of your card. This is real SHT. The rest of you deserve what you get.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Very true. Just had a interview with a carrier. They seemed to know what’s going on here and carefully tried to feel out my stance. I’m sure a call to 1108 to check my standing will be coming. I would recommend every mig get a letter from the 1108 and take a pic of your card. This is real SHT. The rest of you deserve what you get.

Truth. The humbling truth is I chose not to be an active participant in my time there and despite how supportive I still am it's not getting the traction I might need.

So now I'm being asked questions like "what committees did you serve on" and I have no reply. The questions won't be outright but they will find a way to guage your side.

I'm not making that mistake here. I'm already signed up to actively serve as soon as probation is over.

Going back and rethinking about my time at Flexjet and hearing the current talk from the other side, if I were still there I wouldn't be caught dead in an airport in that eyesore of a uniform with some bright red bag tags and a union bracelet.

At this point who cares if management knows your side. Thanks to Frank'n'Beans you now have to worry about pilots everywhere else knowing your side.

I just spoke with a Flex guy who just got hired by us. He proudly wore his IBT bracelet into the interview. It seemed to grease rhe wheels. That says it all right there.

 

[jetwash]

You may find you have to leave if they turn this place into the way it was pre Union. Have any of you spoken to the pilots who worked here before? Everyone I have spoken with tells the same brutal story. Switch fleets, go back to year one pay, 100% rolling rest, discipline for legitimate maintenance write ups and constant backstabbing by your coworkers. Grim...

That is the 100% truth.

The fence sitters should read that and take it to heart.

 

[rajflyboy]

More than anything, Union people believe in protecting what they have worked so hard to bargain for. When push comes to shove, if there is a doubt they will protect themselves. Fairness equals self protection.

How about the folks who would vote No to decertify then?