All Flex (One Sky) Pilots

[cougar12]

I just got off the phone with a Retired ALPA friend and it seems FW and cohorts have been misleading us in more ways than one! ALPA is aware of what is going on and members of their Leadership have the view this Decert Drive is an attack on Unions and Professional Pilots! FW wouldn’t be able to empty trash cans let alone be able to appeal for ALPA representation on behalf of One Sky Pilots. I am led to believe they are taking this very seriously!

 

[TexasChallenger]

The real culprit behind this drive is PD. He’s out for revenge and has been for years. FW is his straw man while he operates in the shadows. PD is the type that loves getting into the weeds with this type of stuff and his fingerprints are all over this. He’s just too much of a coward to sign his name on the line, thus enter one FW.

 

[flexible]

Tex don't make the mistake of viewing Frank as some type of benevolent hero.

The proof all pilots received this week regarding his collusion with big time union busters didn't receive a blip on the radar from pilots as far as I can tell. It is proof positive this decert campaign is about abusing Flexjet pilots for a bigger agenda and nothing to do with what Frank has been claiming. He is now a proven liar.

Unfortunately a liar who is likely going to succeed in ruining our careers unless pilots start getting wise to the bigger agenda.

 

[rajflyboy]

Peeps

just keep collectin the paycheck and start a lookin for a new job if you donna like it.

Sucks... but face it.. the hiring elsewhere is very good

 

[TexasChallenger]

Tex don't make the mistake of viewing Frank as some type of benevolent hero.

The proof all pilots received this week regarding his collusion with big time union busters didn't receive a blip on the radar from pilots as far as I can tell. It is proof positive this decert campaign is about abusing Flexjet pilots for a bigger agenda and nothing to do with what Frank has been claiming. He is now a proven liar.

Unfortunately a liar who is likely going to succeed in ruining our careers unless pilots start getting wise to the bigger agenda.

Trust me, I’m as disgusted with FW as anyone. All I’m saying is that PD is doing the grunt work behind the scenes and FW is more than happy to sign his name to PD’s work.

 

[rajflyboy]

I understand why you may not like what your union is doing but the reason you have a union is because you need a union. You need someone to fight for you when things happen (discipline, FAA violations, loss of benefits, etc etc)

keep the damn union and work to make it stronger (this union is still very young). U are working a crap schedule with crap wages (you can do better for yourselves if you all get together on the same page). Make sure you vote out the trash in union elections (don’t keep beating your heads with the same leadership if they suck or are just waiting to switch to management)

Be patient. This junk takes a while to get right. In the mean time get the applications out there. Lots of hiring going on.

 

[TexasChallenger]

I understand why you may not like what your union is doing but the reason you have a union is because you need a union. You need someone to fight for you when things happen (discipline, FAA violations, loss of benefits, etc etc)

keep the damn union and work to make it stronger (this union is still very young). U are working a crap schedule with crap wages (you can do better for yourselves if you all get together on the same page). Make sure you vote out the trash in union elections (don’t keep beating your heads with the same leadership if they suck or are just waiting to switch to management)

Be patient. This junk takes a while to get right. In the mean time get the applications out there. Lots of hiring going on.

is this directed toward me?!?!?

 

[rajflyboy]

is this directed toward me?!?!?

No

Its directed at all the Flex Options Pilots

you have sub standard schedules and pay

It’s time to fix it.

 

[cougar12]

All I know there is no way I would mark a ballot, secret or not, to decertify a Union if I desired to work for a Major or any other airline. Can you say career suicide! Especially In this electronic age, not to mention there are still human beings involved!

 

[Imissmypilot]

Here's the issue going on right now in the interview process with every major player in aviation: they are very concerned about what's going on at Flexjet and what working in this environment for the past 3 years has done to your feasibility as a pilot who will work well in a highly unionized company. Whether you are pro-union or anti-union doesn't even matter. What concerns them is the completely dysfunctional environment you are coming from. I heard some version of it in interview after interview. The fact is the pilot shortage world against you now as a Flexjet pilot. There are too many candidates that don't come with baggage.

Mark my words: if you think it's hard for a Flexjet pilot in the market right now, it will get downright impossible to leave if you decertify. All OneSky Pilots will be looked upon as outcasts and idiots for putting our entire industry at risk. It's already happening just as a result of the annoucement.

The crazy risk if you decertify and things go south (which is practically guaranteed no matter what they say) you will have nowhere to go.

There doesn't even have to be a black ball list. Just having OneSky or Flexjet on your resume will make you automatically undesirable. The pro-union guys who served on committees will have an easier time finding a job because of the benefits of membership includes a fraternity that extends beyond the Teamsters but even they will have a huge monkey on their back.

Make no mistake about it: this industry likes their unions. Even management. You create industry turmoil by decertifying and you destroy the opportunity to leave.

If you think this decert campaign has a shot in hell, you better leave and leave now. There will be no place to go to if Flexjet is attached to your name afterwards. How much of your life do really want to gamble on Kenn Ricci turning out to be a boss you want over you for the rest of your career?

 

[cougar12]

Friend just sent this.....
April 16, 2018

To All Flight Options & Flexjet Pilots:

On behalf of the 9,500 members of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA), the pilots of Southwest Airlines, I write to you today to express our unconditional support for International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 1108 and the representation services it provides to the pilots of Flight Options and Flexjet.

If the decertification effort of Local 1108 succeeds, the ramifications and consequences to our profession will be very damaging and far reaching. Unions and collective bargaining in the airline industry arose out of the necessity for safety and protection from greed and abuse by unconscionable owners and management. Today, we are faced with being pressured to fly at any cost, safety being sacrificed for profits, flag of convenience schemes, and many more problems.

Supporters of the decertification campaign against Local 1108 include some of our country’s most notoriously anti-union organizations, including the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Why are they involved? Because airline owners and management don’t like collective bargaining, which is a legitimate threat to the absolute power they wish to wield. Collective bargaining groups help enforce the requirement to run a safe organization, the duty to be accountable, and the requirement to provide a wage commensurate with the skill and experience required of our profession.

Our profession has been through hell and back. We have finally started to recover from several lost decades of declining wages and benefits. Today, for the first time, there is a confluence of factors in our favor: more emphasis on safety, stable oil prices, pilots in high demand with an ever-increasing shortage of qualified aviators, a recovering, healthy economy, and the public’s insatiable desire to travel. Decertification would threaten the safety of your operation and start the reversal of all of our hard-fought gains.

SWAPA’s pilot demand and pay study is located on our website at: https://www.swapa.org/. It will give some insight into the current market economics of our profession. Please also accept our invitation for Local 1108 to attend SWAPA’s second annual National Conference of Independent Pilot Unions in October. Information to the conference can be found at: https://www.swapa.org/conference.

All of us at SWAPA hope you conclude remaining in Local 1108 is not only what is right but what will protect and advance your careers and our profession. Please say no to decertification. Thank you for consideration and we hope to see you in October.

Fraternally,



Captain Jon Weaks
President

 

[EnFuego]

I also received that from a friend at Southwest. Immp is correct that they will be watching and this will have a negative effect on us Flex pilots getting on at Southwest...

 

[MOMOMOJO]

It is absolutely imperative that we remember a union representative sits in on all interviews at the majors and regionals. If we let Flexjet become the laughing stock of the industry by decertifying, you can guarantee we will get tanked in the interview process. Not because they are petty or would be participating in some random form of blacklisting but because we will all be viewed as a cancer they can't let spread to their ranks.

Whether you were active in the decertification drive (a stage 4 cancer) or a MIGS to weak to stop it from spreading, the fact is we will be viewed as both pariahs and clowns.

If you ever have had a dream of moving on from this place to any outfit with a union on the property, you better start working overtime to make sure the 1108 stays at Flexjet.

 

[MagnumPI]

It is absolutely imperative that we remember a union representative sits in on all interviews at the majors and regionals. If we let Flexjet become the laughing stock of the industry by decertifying, you can guarantee we will get tanked in the interview process. Not because they are petty or would be participating in some random form of blacklisting but because we will all be viewed as a cancer they can't let spread to their ranks.

Whether you were active in the decertification drive (a stage 4 cancer) or a MIGS to weak to stop it from spreading, the fact is we will be viewed as both pariahs and clowns.

If you ever have had a dream of moving on from this place to any outfit with a union on the property, you better start working overtime to make sure the 1108 stays at Flexjet.

I hope it does screw over all the decert guys, FW, LK, MR , and everybody’s favorite Chiken little, along with their band of imbeciles. What kind of an idiot doesn’t think for a minute that ALL pilot unions stick together. Decerting the IBT will be the beginning of the end of Flexjet, and then where are all these “wise guys” going? Certainly not an airline, they will be looked upon the same as scraps that crossed a picket line. The airlines take that stuff very seriously.

Word of advice to all the no votes, I would get a job lined up in the next few weeks because if your vote to decertify the IBT is successful, you’re possibilities of employment elsewhere are over. Good luck.

 

[jetwash]

I also received that from a friend at Southwest. Immp is correct that they will be watching and this will have a negative effect on us Flex pilots getting on at Southwest...

Rather then having a negative effect on the pilots they should teach KR that pilots are a valuable asset.

It would be great if SWA, American, Delta, United, UPS etc would each fill a class of pilots made up of Flexjet pilots in June or July and drain 300 pilots from the Flex senority list and thereby ground half the Flexjet fleet for months to come. We already have 15 uncrewed aircraft a day. Imagine the charter costs if there were 40 uncrewed aircraft a day.
The customers and investors would not be too happy.

 

[cougar12]

Might make this more relevant:

All I know there is no way I would mark a ballot, secret or not, to decertify a Union if I desired to work for a Major or any other airline. Can you say career suicide! Especially In this electronic age, not to mention there are still human beings involved!

 

[exagony]

Rather then having a negative effect on the pilots they should teach KR that pilots are a valuable asset.

It would be great if SWA, American, Delta, United, UPS etc would each fill a class of pilots made up of Flexjet pilots in June or July and drain 300 pilots from the Flex senority list and thereby ground half the Flexjet fleet for months to come. We already have 15 uncrewed aircraft a day. Imagine the charter costs if there were 40 uncrewed aircraft a day.
The customers and investors would not be too happy.

But only with proven union supporters- these decert arseholes shouldn’t be rewarded for the hell they’ve brought on at flex - you don’t want a union you shouldn’t get hired in to a union company

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

These non-supporters have no where to go. They are the true definition of a trapped employee. They think they can't give up their shiny jet syndrome position and work like the rest of us. Right now, Flex is in an emergency descent with the gear and spoilers out. As we descent thru 1,000 ft, will management figure out the position we are in and pull us out? There isn't much time left!!

 

[bluepost]

Try getting in anywhere. I would take a photo of my vote, my dues card and quit for pretty much any job if this decert goes through.

This is the talk of the industry right now, and it’s not being looked upon favorably at all. Good luck getting on anywhere, you will be damaged goods. If NJA buys the crumbs left at Flex someday, staple job is the best you could hope for. The union wouldn’t want you at all and would demand individual veto power.

Word is CAPA, APA, UPS, all are drafting letters at this point. If you don’t have a photo of your dues paying card and flex goes under you will be our generation of scab equivalents. Stupid, stupid move. Shockingly stupid.

 

[Propilot77]

We already have 15 uncrewed aircraft a day. Imagine the charter costs if there were 40 uncrewed aircraft a day.
The customers and investors would not be too happy.

Before I left that number was up to 25. Unless they have hired that many which is impossible. That number came straight from a high level manager.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

With all of the turmoil at Flex, they are having such a hard time replacing the pilots that are leaving, there aren't enough pilots for the planned expansion. They have delayed delivery of most of the new aircraft because they would just sit uncrewed anyway. So why not take delivery and just park it? The owners are not too keen on that idea. Buy a plane and not use it because Flex can't find pilots to fly it? We defered another sale.

 

[shanes123]

They have delayed delivery cause they don’t have the money for them. It’s the same old story. Nothing to do with pilots. It’s piss poor management. Wonder what Frank and beans plans on doing when his ship sinks. Not a company in the world that would touch him now. Even that number to that truck driving school has a union !!!!

 

[cougar12]

Try getting in anywhere. I would take a photo of my vote, my dues card and quit for pretty much any job if this decert goes through.

This is the talk of the industry right now, and it’s not being looked upon favorably at all. Good luck getting on anywhere, you will be damaged goods. If NJA buys the crumbs left at Flex someday, staple job is the best you could hope for. The union wouldn’t want you at all and would demand individual veto power.

Word is CAPA, APA, UPS, all are drafting letters at this point. If you don’t have a photo of your dues paying card and flex goes under you will be our generation of scab equivalents. Stupid, stupid move. Shockingly stupid.

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April 18, 2018[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

Flight Options & Flexjet Pilots
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Local 1108
P.O. Box 43485
Richmond Heights, OH 44143-3485[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

Fellow Professional Pilots,[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

The Coalition of Airline Pilots Association (CAPA) is a trade association comprised of over
30,000 professional airline pilots in the service of American Airlines, UPS Airlines, Horizon Air,
ABX Air, Atlas Air, Allegiant Air, Cape Air, Miami Air, Omni Air, Silver Airways, Southern
Air, and Republic Airline. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and
regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common
interest to the individual member unions and professional pilots across the United States.
For that reason, we are writing to you about a matter of concern to our entire profession.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

We have learned there is a campaign underway to decertify your union at Flexjet/Flight Options
and to replace it with a so-called "direct relationship" between individual pilots and management.
A vote in favor of no representation would prevent future collective bargaining over
improvements to your current contract and leave pilots without any union representative. This
would be an unprecedented development given that current pilot labor market conditions have
resulted in the most favorable collective bargaining environment in the history of our profession.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

Pilot unions do more than negotiate over rates of pay, rules and working conditions. Our
organizations also successfully advocate for aviation safety initiatives, improved training, and
enhanced security. These advancements would not have been possible without the right of pilots
to form unions and bargain with carriers, a right that was codified in the Railway Labor Act more
than eighty years ago. Accordingly, continuity of membership in a pilot union is the foundation
for relationships between co-workers when a pilot leaves one carrier to accept employment with
another carrier.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

For all of these reasons, we regard any campaign to reduce union density or weaken collective
bargaining strength - regardless of whether it originates with management, a faction of pilots or a
third party - as a threat to the interests of all professional flight deck crew members. Therefore,
CAPA offers its full support to the pilots of Flexjet/Flight Options as they face down this
challenge. By voting for the Teamsters in the election, you will remain a part of the larger
community of represented pilots in the United States with the ability to bargain improvements
for yourselves while helping to protect and raise standards for our entire profession.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

If CAPA can be of assistance, do not hesitate to contact us directly.[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]

Sincerely,[/FONT]​

​

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Captain Lee Collins
President[/FONT]​

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[FONT=&quot]

cc: Captain Daniel Wells, President/Teamsters Union Local 1224
Captain Robert Travis, President/Independent Pilots Association
Captain Dan Carey, President/Allied Pilots Association
Captain Josh LeBlanc, President/Teamsters Union Local 357[/FONT]​

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[FTITA]

Try getting in anywhere. I would take a photo of my vote, my dues card and quit for pretty much any job if this decert goes through.

This is the talk of the industry right now, and it’s not being looked upon favorably at all. Good luck getting on anywhere, you will be damaged goods. If NJA buys the crumbs left at Flex someday, staple job is the best you could hope for. The union wouldn’t want you at all and would demand individual veto power.

Word is CAPA, APA, UPS, all are drafting letters at this point. If you don’t have a photo of your dues paying card and flex goes under you will be our generation of scab equivalents. Stupid, stupid move. Shockingly stupid.

Except that asking about union affiliation during a job interview is an illegal question. Generation of scab equivalents? Not even close. You won’t get denied a jumpseat because of the way you voted in a decert vote. Even GoJet guys don’t have any problems jumpseating these days. SkyWest is non-union and nobody in the 121 world gives a crap. Will the vote be big within OneSky? Absolutely, but it’s not going to prevent people from getting hired elsewhere if they vote for the decert. That’s just nonsense.

 

[cougar12]

I will make sure to let the Reps know they can’t look at a Wiki list!
To think they can’t or won’t is nonsense.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Except that asking about union affiliation during a job interview is an illegal question. Generation of scab equivalents? Not even close. You won’t get denied a jumpseat because of the way you voted in a decert vote. Even GoJet guys don’t have any problems jumpseating these days. SkyWest is non-union and nobody in the 121 world gives a crap. Will the vote be big within OneSky? Absolutely, but it’s not going to prevent people from getting hired elsewhere if they vote for the decert. That’s just nonsense.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jumpseats are based on being a CASS participant.

 

[MagnumPI]

Except that asking about union affiliation during a job interview is an illegal question. Generation of scab equivalents? Not even close. You won’t get denied a jumpseat because of the way you voted in a decert vote. Even GoJet guys don’t have any problems jumpseating these days. SkyWest is non-union and nobody in the 121 world gives a crap. Will the vote be big within OneSky? Absolutely, but it’s not going to prevent people from getting hired elsewhere if they vote for the decert. That’s just nonsense.

The airlines won’t have to ask on a job interview because if Flexjet is on the job application, you just won’t receie an interview invite to begin with. Is it really worth gambling the fate of getting an airline job on this decert? Especially if things go south at Flex after the decert and guys try to get an airline job? I for one am not willing to take that chance given the current pilot union support letters. I said this even before the IBT sent out their letter, “pilot unions stick together”, and they are watching the outcome.

I heard a rumor that APA and ALPA also have letters of IBT support forthcoming as well.

 

[John MClain]

The math just doesn’t add up. NJASAP, SWAPA, CAPA, APA and rumor has it ALPA have all voiced their support for OneSky’s Local IBT 1108. That’s somewhere north of 40,000 professional pilots. All of which are benefitting from solidarity and Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA’s).
Yet this Woelke character and his band of (maybe 10 or 12) misfits seem to know more about what it takes to deal with and negotiate with a management team that is hell bent on removing the union.
It’s a sad day for the aviation profession when pilot’s themselves take on the role of Union Busters.



http://oscrewlounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/IncompetentUnion.mp4?_=1

 

[TexasChallenger]

That is probably one of the most unbelievable things I’ve ever seen in my career. Wow.

 

[shanes123]

52 years old ????? Unreal. He looks 70 and on his death bed... maybe that’s why he’s driveling nonsense he’s delirious. Or 2NN has promised him a house in Cabo next to him and the Arbitrator