And done .....

[gutshotdraw]

A good portion of Delta's executive team including the CEO came from Northwest. Delta's pilot union clearly seems to be happy with how their profit sharing is structured. So what is different in their current profit sharing plan versus what NWA offered?

The concept has merit and has been proven to work, but you are right, it can't be so convoluted that people cant understand it or the executives can game it.

The "profit sharing" plan at Northwest was conjured up by Doug Steenland and his administration. The same bunch that drove the airline into the ditch with the strike in '98. Steenland was the second-worst aviation CEO I have ever witnessed (following our recently departed dipstick).

Richard Anderson is an entirely different kind of guy. He was well liked at NWA (for a management guy anyway) and has done a great job at Delta IMHO. He actually understands that well-motivated and happy employees results in happy customers and the profits take care of themselves. The current profit sharing plan at Delta is reasonable because it is actually OBTAINABLE.

The caveats and conditions that our dear, departed dipstick included in his proposal were ludicrous.

 

[G4dude]

Oh G4, you STILL are missing the point. We can NOT wait a single day longer for the "pilot shortage" or any other outside factor to make things happen.
The entire point of that video was that DAL pilot must NOT wait for things to coax or force management to make a good contract happen. That they, the pilots, are responsible for their own destiny in negotiations and so they must get things going NOW. Not later.
As an aside, the profit sharing, as you can see, is not what makes a significant part of their compensation, but rather just a "nice other thing" that happens in good times. That is something we must pay attention to. JH tried to pull the wool over our eyes with that one and happily nobody fell for it.
Additionally, the best way for profit sharing to work from an employee standpoint for most of us, including pilots, is to screw other groups. Ie cheap hotels, cheap airline seats, etc. For the pilots, to fly broken planes, to fly tired or sick et al.
Profit sharing should never be the meat and potatoes of a pay raise, and DAL MEC knows this, which is why they are going full-on with the negotiating early. They know better than to wait. You, G4, really need to accept the fact (and I will say PROVEN fact) that NJA management will never do what is right until forced to do so. The pilot shortage is nothing when it comes to us. NJA would love to go back to the days of SICs making $27,108 and PICs making just over $36,000...that was only 10 years ago. Things didn't go up because of their generosity...they went up because they were forced to. Please, please come to grips with reality, not fantasy and wishful thinking.

I agree about what you guys are saying about profit sharing. I want pay. As for NJA wanting to pay us peanuts, you are right. But the marketplace won't allow it because of the shortage. We would lose most of our pilots and the company knows that. Plus, we are represented by the union. But to believe the shortage doesn't affect our negotiations right now is mistaken, in my opinion. We are all going to make a LOT of money until the shortage is resolved. And the reason the shortage will be resolved is because of the higher pay attracting more people to become a pilot, higher pay from companies hating to pay more but having to do so to attract pilots. Everything happens because of events causing certain predictable reactions. Shortage = more pay. Surplus pilots = less pay. NJA will pay us more not because it is right, but because the marketplace requires it. In a few years pay will trend downward once those extra pilot candidates attracted by the high pay enter the professional ranks.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I agree about what you guys are saying about profit sharing. I want pay. As for NJA wanting to pay us peanuts, you are right. But the marketplace won't allow it because of the shortage. We would lose most of our pilots and the company knows that. Plus, we are represented by the union. But to believe the shortage doesn't affect our negotiations right now is mistaken, in my opinion. We are all going to make a LOT of money until the shortage is resolved. And the reason the shortage will be resolved is because of the higher pay attracting more people to become a pilot, higher pay from companies hating to pay more but having to do so to attract pilots. Everything happens because of events causing certain predictable reactions. Shortage = more pay. Surplus pilots = less pay. NJA will pay us more not because it is right, but because the marketplace requires it. In a few years pay will trend downward once those extra pilot candidates attracted by the high pay enter the professional ranks.

The shortage of QUALIFIED pilots that is beginnng to emerge certainly HELPS but it is not the be all and end all to guarantee a good contract.

By the way, I DON'T think NetJets thought they would have to improve our contract in order to keep pilots. I think that He Who Shall Not Be Named and Uncle Warren BOTH truly believed that this is just the greatest job, pays more than enough, and gollygeewillikers, it's a Berkshire Hathaway company so you should feel priviledged to work here! Obviously, a delusional belief that I doubt Billy and AJ share.

Regardless, reduced availability of qualified pilots is a looming issue in the FUTURE. Contract negotiations are happening NOW and the negotiating team must have the credibility (read:leverage) to convince the company to pay up NOW. They must be able to point to IMMEDIATE ramifications if a good deal is not offered.

It is all part of a larger puzzle. You didn't believe me when I told you the picketing, the advertisements, the red lanyards, the interviews, the press releases, and all the rest would COMBINE to sufficiently embarrass Warren to the point where he would remove the lawyer. Well, there is a larger puzzle here with lots of small pieces, not just one big PILOT SHORTAGE piece.

Don't fly tired.
Don't fly sick.
Don't fly broken airplanes.
Don't do any favors.
Don't extend.
Don't encourage anybody to become a pilot

 

[gunfyter]

I wonder if NJA will dust off their ab-initio program.

 

[Mooneymite]

I wonder if NJA will dust off their ab-initio program.

Ha! What "ab initio" program?

They'll just go back to hiring anyone who can fog a mirror like they once did..

Wonder how some of the senior guys got hired in the first place?

 

[gunfyter]

So as long as we've got no mirror shortage they needn't worry about a thing.

 

[pilotyip]

Ha! What "ab initio" program?

They'll just go back to hiring anyone who can fog a mirror like they once did..

Wonder how some of the senior guys got hired in the first place?

you mean like 15 years ago?

 

[ghostrider64]

G4 you're a complete turd.

You say "the market is why we'll be paid more". I got news for you dork, if and when we get a pay raise it will be entirely due to the unionists you despise. However you'll be the one saying we got because old guys are leaving the industry. Christ you're and idiot.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Christ you're and idiot.

You lose just a teensy-weensy bit of credibility when you post something like this while calling somebody ELSE an idiot.

Jusssssssss sayin'

 

[ghostrider64]

You lose just a teensy-weensy bit of credibility when you post something like this while calling somebody ELSE an idiot.

Jusssssssss sayin'

Maybe to those that are easily offended by THE TRUTH.

I'm pretty sure my record is 99.9% accurate thus far. I'm happy to keep company with those that share that kind of accuracy. Idiots be us all.

As for the pre scab aka "the scratch", he's never had any credibility to lose.

Jussss sayin

 

[wacoflyr]

I think he was referring to your grammar, which is not 99.9% accurate.

 

[G4dude]

G4 you're a complete turd.

You say "the market is why we'll be paid more". I got news for you dork, if and when we get a pay raise it will be entirely due to the unionists you despise. However you'll be the one saying we got because old guys are leaving the industry. Christ you're and idiot.

You comprehend with the same proficiency as you spell and construct sentences. I am just saying the shortage will help our negotiators. That's all. Not denigrating the union at all.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think he was referring to your grammar, which is not 99.9% accurate.

Exactamundo.

 

[ghostrider64]

Sorry, I'm a product of the Texas public school system. They never really cared much about spelling or sentence structure. They were/are more interested in teaching folks to speak clearly, with integrity, and remembering the Alamo.

 

[Mooneymite]

Sorry, I'm a product of the Texas public school system. They never really cared much about spelling or sentence structure. They were/are more interested in teaching folks to speak clearly, with integrity, and remembering the Alamo.

I take it that LBJ and a lot of the other Texas policicians somehow missed those classes, but learned to spell.

Interesting.