Southwest upgrade falls to 9 years 7 months

[bluesideup1]

Less than 6 months after the final integration of Airtran upgrades have fallen to under 10 years. Four bases for the most recent junior Captain are less than or right around 10 years. This doesn't include the lances that should take it into the early 9 years for the upgrade. This also means that over 500 of the previous Airtran captains have upgraded or at least had the ability to upgrade.

There is also around 450 pilots in ATL come the end of May.

 

[bafanguy]

What are "lances" ?

And...what's the date of hire for the bottom pilot in ATL ?

 

[freightdogfred]

What is the global seniority # of the most junior capt?

 

[redflyer65]

OAK 4872.
ATL 4695.
MDW 4864.
HOU 4826.
DEN 4835.

All pretty similar except MCO and ATL. Hopefully we keep adding slots in ATL for both seats.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

What are "lances" ?

SWA Bubba is a lance.

 

[SWA Bubba]

What are "lances" ?

And...what's the date of hire for the bottom pilot in ATL ?

A Lance Captain is a Captain-qualified First Officer. He gets an F/O line, but can pick up or trade for Captain pairings. He gets paid the appropriate rate for whichever seat he's sitting in for a given pairing. The top 2.3% of F/Os in a base get to be Lances.

I am not a Lance Captain. However, Uncle Bunkle is still an idiot.

Bubba

 

[canyonblue]

The top 2.3% of F/Os in a base get to be Lances.

You mean Top 3.2%.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

OAK 4872.
ATL 4695.
MDW 4864.
HOU 4826.
DEN 4835.

All pretty similar except MCO and ATL. Hopefully we keep adding slots in ATL for both seats.

Maybe that will come from that 6% growth you espoused in another thread?

 

[redflyer65]

I just hope the guys that want Atlanta get it Luv.


......and, that's what they are supposed to do with each month. I just hope they hold true to that plan.

 

[outerlimits]

SWA Bubba is a lance.

I hope I never have to fly with you . You seem obsessed with other pilots .

Does a PPO work with flying with other crew members ?

 

[SWA Bubba]

You mean Top 3.2%.

Why, yes. Yes, I did. Thanks. :beer:

Bubba

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Does a PPO work with flying with other crew members ?

Up to an extent, yes it does. However what you must remember is to not wear cowboy boots in the cockpit.

 

[PGTB]

A Lance Captain is a Captain-qualified First Officer. He gets an F/O line, but can pick up or trade for Captain pairings. He gets paid the appropriate rate for whichever seat he's sitting in for a given pairing. The top 2.3% of F/Os in a base get to be Lances.

I am not a Lance Captain. However, Uncle Bunkle is still an idiot.

Bubba

That's pretty rediculous. I thought only regionals did that kind of stuff.

 

[PCL_128]

That's pretty rediculous. I thought only regionals did that kind of stuff.

Southwest does all sorts of crap that you'd think only regionals would do.

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's pretty rediculous. I thought only regionals did that kind of stuff.

Southwest does all sorts of crap that you'd think only regionals would do.

I'm guessing then that neither of you understand it, or why Southwest has it.

It's not the company doing it; it's the pilots. It's left over from back in the day when Southwest was very small and several times HK acquired airplanes and there was insufficient captains to utilize them fully. Having "spare captains allowed that flexibility.

For the past 10-15 years, the company has wanted to get rid of the program in the worst way, but the pilots want to keep it, as it's a mechanism to "grease the wheels" in order to allow for more trip trading and giveaway between pilots. During the last section six, the company insisted on getting rid of it, while the union fought to keep it; the compromise was to keep it with more restrictions and limitations. The program probably won't survive another section six or two; or at least that's the general consensus.

Basically it's an unnecessary remnant of the early days, but that the pilots like because it's a good deal for them. So not really ridiculous (or "rediculous")

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

It's not really a good deal for them. They just think it is. A real good deal for the pilots would be to completely ditch your current schedule adjustment system and replace it with a real process that other legacy airlines have, including a minimum staffing formula and the ability to straight drop trips. But you're too busy stroking yourself and thinking about your W2 that isn't really all that anymore.

 

[HowardBorden]

It's not really a good deal for them. They just think it is.

You're right, you're smarter than all the people that actually work at SWA that love the program.

 

[Remington]

Southwest does all sorts of crap that you'd think only regionals would do.

Except for making Billions of dollars. Kind of wierd a non-pilot is trolling pilot forums. Creepy indeed!

I would go there in a New York second if they called me.

 

[SWA Bubba]

It's not really a good deal for them. They just think it is. A real good deal for the pilots would be to completely ditch your current schedule adjustment system and replace it with a real process that other legacy airlines have, including a minimum staffing formula and the ability to straight drop trips. But you're too busy stroking yourself and thinking about your W2 that isn't really all that anymore.

If they can make it work for them, then it IS a good deal for them, despite your ALPA-based thought process. I don't know why that's so hard for you to comprehend. That's based on the company's manning model and business practices.

In order to replace our system with a "real process that other legacy airlines have," where one could "straight drop trips" regularly, Southwest would need a much higher reserve percentage than we do (we have something like 8-9% reserves), and hence a much overall greater pilot-per-plane ratio than we have. While I realize that's ALPA's gameplan--more pilots equals more dues-payers and money to Herndon--it's not the way we like it here. At Southwest, there's no maximum amount you can work, other than dictated by FARs. Other than months like February when the schedule's light, there's essentially no limit to how much you can pick up.....if you want to. The schedulers even say that they count on a certain percentage of pilots being greedy, in order to cover everything.

And I'm not stroking anything. There are plusses and minuses to every system that's out there. I work the amount I want to work. Other pilots here work much more than me, and are compensated as such. That's a flexibility that ALPA carriers don't offer.

Bubba

 

[humveedriver]

If they can make it work for them, then it IS a good deal for them, despite your ALPA-based thought process. I don't know why that's so hard for you to comprehend. That's based on the company's manning model and business practices.

In order to replace our system with a "real process that other legacy airlines have," where one could "straight drop trips" regularly, Southwest would need a much higher reserve percentage than we do (we have something like 8-9% reserves), and hence a much overall greater pilot-per-plane ratio than we have. While I realize that's ALPA's gameplan--more pilots equals more dues-payers and money to Herndon--it's not the way we like it here. At Southwest, there's no maximum amount you can work, other than dictated by FARs. Other than months like February when the schedule's light, there's essentially no limit to how much you can pick up.....if you want to. The schedulers even say that they count on a certain percentage of pilots being greedy, in order to cover everything.

And I'm not stroking anything. There are plusses and minuses to every system that's out there. I work the amount I want to work. Other pilots here work much more than me, and are compensated as such. That's a flexibility that ALPA carriers don't offer.

Bubba

This is the straight dope. It's not a perfect system, but definetaly the most lucrative one I've ever worked under. Less commutable is about the only real negative I see. But. I don't commute. Anymore. And I'm lancing in domicile. Why anyone would think that's worse than commuting to weekend reserve is beyond me.

 

[StopNTSing]

This is the straight dope. It's not a perfect system, but definetaly the most lucrative one I've ever worked under. Less commutable is about the only real negative I see. But. I don't commute. Anymore. And I'm lancing in domicile. Why anyone would think that's worse than commuting to weekend reserve is beyond me.

Check me if I'm wrong, HD, but this commentary comes from a fATN dude, correct? PCL has a long, established history of completely misunderstanding this airline. And having bailed out right before crossing over, he can continue to wallow in his willful ignorance forever more.

 

[funnyman12]

Reserve percentage has been a lot higher than that. Been around 12-14% the last few months.

 

[redflyer65]

You're right, you're smarter than all the people that actually work at SWA that love the program.

Correct. Espouses crap without ever working ONE day at SW. Talk about zero credibility. Wow.

 

[PCL_128]

At Southwest, there's no maximum amount you can work

This is true at the ALPA carriers, also, yet they still have straight trip drops. Hell, the guys at Delta clean up with green slips. You live in a bubble and don't realize what else is out there that is so superior to what you've got. It's sad.

 

[canyonblue]

This is true at the ALPA carriers, also, yet they still have straight trip drops. Hell, the guys at Delta clean up with green slips. You live in a bubble and don't realize what else is out there that is so superior to what you've got. It's sad.

Yet you have never worked for any of these "so called" superior airlines. What legacy did you leave on the airline industry? Which place was it that set the bar in negotiations, or paved the way in this industry? First lesson in life, don't ever take advice from someone who never led the life they espouse.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Me thinks PCL is still on the property sitting at home, waiting (and getting paid) for his Captain upgrade then when he looks the big picture he may even withdraw his Walmart greeter application- just saying
If I'm wrong and all the upgrades are complete then he should have no credible comment on SWA as he has never worked for them.

 

[PCL_128]

Um, yeah, most people here know who I am, and they know when I resigned. Thanks for playing, though.

 

[redflyer65]

This is the straight dope. It's not a perfect system, but definetaly the most lucrative one I've ever worked under. Less commutable is about the only real negative I see. But. I don't commute. Anymore. And I'm lancing in domicile. Why anyone would think that's worse than commuting to weekend reserve is beyond me.

Exactly Humvee.

It's not a perfect system and I wish we had the option for straight drop. If you're good with ELITT you can drop days....sometimes.

If you just want to fly your line and do nothing, your going to usually get 16 or 17 days off (how many more do you need?). Credit will be 95-100 trips. Basically 3 on, 4 off, etc. Rinse and repeat. Good pay for very few days at work. That kind of schedule would give a mid-level FO 150k/yr with doing nothing. No trading, no working the soft credit, no premium.

If you are interested in working harder, it's there as well. This is where the 'lucrative' part comes in. You can sacrifice a few days off, work your soft credit months and that baseline 150k quickly is 180k+ for a mid-level FO. Granted, this isn't for everyone but it's available. I know other airlines like DL have 'greenslips'. But the above is not done with premium/greenslip additions. It can be done at straight time every month. If you are an upper level FO, then premium is readily available every single weekend. Except maybe Feb. This weekend's premium was everywhere, at almost every seniority level. This is the part that PCL can't really comprehend. He never worked one day under our system.

Huge money can be made if you're in the top of your seat and fly premium almost exclusively and pick up beyond the basic 17 days off. The numbers are very high. Again, not for everybody. Especially if you're a commuter.

 

[freightdogfred]

I know I've got a lot to learn bein new and all...but what type of trips are you able to drop in elitt? I've put weekday trips, both 3 and 4 days, starting on a tues, with no PIN#, no cell to call, yet there they sit. I was told the weekday trips were the most desirable. Are the AM or PM's easiest to give away?

 

[humveedriver]

I know I've got a lot to learn bein new and all...but what type of trips are you able to drop in elitt? I've put weekday trips, both 3 and 4 days, starting on a tues, with no PIN#, no cell to call, yet there they sit. I was told the weekday trips were the most desirable. Are the AM or PM's easiest to give away?

You can only trade in Elitt. But the trips don't have to overlap (they don't have to be vertical in AirTran speak). So if you want to trade a Tuesday start for a Wednesday start, you can. TTGA (trip trade give away) is where you post your trip for another pilot to pick up. I had Tuesday PM's and gave away three 3 days for May (FO side). If give away is your plan, put them in as soon as you can, but don't expect them to go until after monthly open time is open (MOT). Even then it takes a while for them to get looked at. As far as making your trip look more attractive in give away, you have to think what someone else wants in a trip,not what you want. So if you are like me and look for SJU overnights, you may want to consider bidding trips that have these qualities; PM trip with an earlier finish time and trips that pass through domicile. You can break up the trips that pass through domicile (partial give away) or other folks will want the trip so they can break it up. Of course one day and two day trips will be easier o give away too. Finally, a trip that pays well for not a lot of block time (deadhead) will get looked at too.