Major Airline Captains, would you recommend career to your son/daughter?

[check six]

Overall, the career still has its good with bad but is it getting any worse?

Positives:
Pay at majors is at all time highs. Pilots are home about 12 to 16 days per months. Two pilot crew seems to be the standard now. The actual job is great work.

Negatives:
Lose your job due to furlough, company bankruptcy or loss of medical and you start over. Norwegian air shuttle model is a threat but may get shot down by ALPA. Defined benefit pension plan is gone (most corporations don't have it either).

Would you recommend to son/daughter?

Thanks,

Check Six

 

[AKAAB]

Yes, but only for some very specific reasons.

1. Airline hiring boom is on the horizon because of massive retirements.
2. Son's HS is providing free flying lessons (no additional tuition) next year with their new program. Seniors in the aviation program should graduate with a Private certificate.
3. He wants to be a writer. (Published first novel on Amazon at 15 y/o.)
4. We want him to be a writer, albeit a well-fed, debt-free writer with a decent source of income.
5. He has no interest in any other college degree other than creative writing and has no vocational interests or prospects.

Ten years ago, I would have said no way. But it's on the table for now.

 

[jonjuan]

How about asking major airline FOs who will never be CAs due to the stagnation/downturn? At least those who won't/can't be wide body line holding, non-commuting CAs.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Overall, the career still has its good with bad but is it getting any worse?

Positives:
Pay at majors is at all time highs. Pilots are home about 12 to 16 days per months. Two pilot crew seems to be the standard now. The actual job is great work.

Negatives:
Lose your job due to furlough, company bankruptcy or loss of medical and you start over. Norwegian air shuttle model is a threat but may get shot down by ALPA. Defined benefit pension plan is gone (most corporations don't have it either).

Would you recommend to son/daughter?

Thanks,

Check Six

Pilot pay at majors is nowhere near all-time highs. The pay just seems high after bankruptcy.

 

[StopNTSing]

I think the industry has one more big surge in hiring/movement over the next decade, fueled by all the retirements and the dearth of new pilots in the training pipeline. If your son/daughter is able to capitalize on this last wave by getting on with a major airline in the next 3-4 years, they could still have a good career. Beyond the next decade, I see the profession stagnating again as technology (like single-pilot cockpits) and increased pressure from foreign pilot mills (which don't exist yet, but will soon) satisfy much of the demand....to the detriment of the profession's career value.

My kids are still very young and I hope they don't catch the aviation bug.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I'm a recent F/O to the majors, but I'll offer only this. I've worked hard, but I've also been extremely lucky, and blessed with the gift of being in the right place at the right time.

We all know those great people who have all the right qualfications and are deserving of a shot but never quite launch for one reason or another - usually it's getting stuck at some intermediate point, like a regional or corporate gig that starts to fray and the upgrade never comes. Thus, they never get their big break.

Others will just stagnate out of comfort or laziness, and some will be struck down with an off the wall medical issue, an incident or a momentary insdiscretion.

I guess I'd only encourage a move into the profession with one's eyes wide open and a robust back-up plan (i.e. pursue a degree in something other than "airplanes") - there's just too many people who have done everything "right" and never get a chance to grab the brass ring.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't think a parent should decide what a child does, but if they are asking for guidance I would say you should only go into flying if that's what the child really wants. If you love flying it's a great way to put food on the table. If you don't and only go into it because you think you'll make a high income and lots of days off, you will probably end up misarable. All careers have good and bad points, but if you don't love flying you'll end up focusing on the downside of our career and likely miss the upside.

 

[Dan Roman]

As far as predicting the future, no one knows and it's foolish to try. But the bottom line is Boeing and Airbus are predicting huge growth in air travel worldwide. They know more then any of us on that subject. So if someone really wants to fly airplanes for a living, they probably will have as much opportunity to succeed as any other proffession.

 

[Whine Lover]

" Pay at (the) majors is at all time highs."

Absolutely, positively, completely, and with out question ....WRONG.

They are at "ALL TIME LOWS" .

Here's why:

- 1990 - NWA 747-4 Max Captain Pay = $ 185,000 Annual Guarantee

- Present - Delta 747-4 Max Captain Pay = $ 210, 600 Annual Guarantee

- Adjusted for Inflation / Buying Power :

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=185,000&year1=1990&year2=2015

So, a Senior Captain at one of the premier U.S Majors is, in fact approximately, $ 120,201 behind the power curve/buying power/wealth ( on an annual basis ) when compared to his predecessors.

Sorry to piss on all your Cheerios Folks...However, it is the sad reality we all must come to grips with.

Glad I am retiring soon...

Whine

 

[Traderd]

Overall, the career still has its good with bad but is it getting any worse?

Positives:
Pay at majors is at all time highs. Pilots are home about 12 to 16 days per months. Two pilot crew seems to be the standard now. The actual job is great work.

Negatives:
Lose your job due to furlough, company bankruptcy or loss of medical and you start over. Norwegian air shuttle model is a threat but may get shot down by ALPA. Defined benefit pension plan is gone (most corporations don't have it either).

Would you recommend to son/daughter?

Thanks,

Check Six

Sure, otherwise you might miss out on a magic moment!

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/american-airlines-dad-pilot-daughter-duo-flight/story?id=29751431

 

[pilotyip]

I don't think a parent should decide what a child does, but if they are asking for guidance I would say you should only go into flying if that's what the child really wants. If you love flying it's a great way to put food on the table. If you don't and only go into it because you think you'll make a high income and lots of days off, you will probably end up misarable. All careers have good and bad points, but if you don't love flying you'll end up focusing on the downside of our career and likely miss the upside.

That sounds a lot like "Fly because you like to, if you are in it for the respect, prestige, recognition or money you may be disappointed".

Present - Delta 747-4 Max Captain Pay = $ 210, 600 Annual Guarantee

And being in the top 5% of US wage earners, for doing something that does not require a college degree is bad? I have too many airline friends living a good life because of their choice of professions, yes and some do not have college degrees.

 

[outerlimits]

I don't think a parent should decide what a child does, but if they are asking for guidance I wouuld say you should only go into flying if that's what the child really wants. If you love flying it's a great way to put food on the table. If you don't and only go into it because you think you'll make a high income and lots of days off, you will probably end up misarable. All careers have good and bad points, but if you don't love flying you'll end up focusing on the downside of our career and likely miss the upside.

Hell ya. I wish you where my pops


I wanted to be a pimp . My parents are stick in the mud. They said no way

 

[Dan Roman]

Hell ya. I wish you where my pops


I wanted to be a pimp . My parents are stick in the mud. They said no way

Well, one nice thing about our job is it lends itself well to having a side job.........

 

[Bringupthebird]

Not unless he is only happy at the airport, rides their bike or bums a ride with friends to get there, washes airplanes in exchange for rides, mooches rides, gets their ground instructor rating and teaches ground school to make money for lessons, is ok with being tossed off the basketball team because they are sweeping hangars and washing out drip pans instead of making practice, remembers on their 4th touch and go in the pattern that prom was tonight, finds an old guy with an IFR 172 and pays for the annual in exchange for using it to get his instrument rating, sleeps on the couch of the FBO where he instructs in the world's oldest Piper Warrior, waits for the freezing rain to stop that has coated the clapped out Cherokee 6 full of automotive seat belt buckles he's gotten a job flying, calms his wife (and mother-in-law) down when she announces her water has broken and that he'll be back from his overnight in Savannah by 8am, packs up his flight bag for the last time after a shouting match over a logbook write-up with a bitter old chief pilot who "thought I hired a team player", remembers the first time he was a co-pilot and how young the captain he's flying with now looks, and ...

then when he calls to say he's got a class date with Delta, I might recommend he take it.

 

[Whine Lover]

"And being in the top 5% of US wage earners, for doing something that does not require a college degree is bad?"

NOPE.

I NEVER SAID THAT.

I was simply refuting the statement that " Pay at majors is at all time highs."

No, it is not.



YKW

 

[Mr Wu]

Hell ya. I wish you where my pops


I wanted to be a pimp . My parents are stick in the mud. They said no way

Pilotyip, still think education means nothing?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Pilotyip, still think education means nothing?

Whatcho' talking about? I thought you got your pimpin' education on the street!

Bubba

 

[pilotyip]

Pilotyip, still think education means nothing?

I have never said that education means nothing, in fact having an education is the key to a successful career, but college is not the only source of education. In fact college many times provides no skill training that will lead to a decent paying job.

In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

In a hundred different ways, we have slowly marginalized an entire category of critical professions, reshaping our expectations of a "good job" into something that no longer looks like work. A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber if you can find one is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we'll all be in need of both.

I came here today because guys like my grandfather are no less important to civilized life than they were 50 years ago. Maybe they're in short supply because we don't acknowledge them they way we used to. We leave our check on the kitchen counter, and hope the work gets done. That needs to change.

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't think a parent should decide what a child does

Not arguing with your sentiment, which was meant to be loving and supportive I'm sure, but one very large financial crisis is looming for younger adults because their parents didn't have the gumption to tell their not-yet-judgmentally-formed children NO. We have ONE TRILLION dollars in student loan debt because buying education on credit makes it easy to buy more than you can afford or really need, or in a field of study that will never pay for itself. A parent shouldn't decide what a child does, but he has every right to decide how their (the parent's) money will be spent and strongly advise against purchasing more education than can be paid for as you go.

Off my soapbox but this it something I feel pretty strongly about. Parents don't abdicate their responsibility as parents just because their kids turn 18.

With all that said, I think there will be a place in aviation even for our kids but it likely won't resemble the same careers we enjoy. A 20 year old now won't retire for probably 50 years, and the industry scarcely resembles itself over that time. I'm guessing a 20 year old could start his airline career as a RJ FO and end it as a backup drone pilot working from home or a local ops center.

 

[two(2)%]

Sounds like you made it to the big time slice. I dunno tho, seems like everyone is getting hired at "da majors". Where you at now?

I'm a recent F/O to the majors, but I'll offer only this. I've worked hard, but I've also been extremely lucky, and blessed with the gift of being in the right place at the right time.

We all know those great people who have all the right qualfications and are deserving of a shot but never quite launch for one reason or another - usually it's getting stuck at some intermediate point, like a regional or corporate gig that starts to fray and the upgrade never comes. Thus, they never get their big break.

Others will just stagnate out of comfort or laziness, and some will be struck down with an off the wall medical issue, an incident or a momentary insdiscretion.

I guess I'd only encourage a move into the profession with one's eyes wide open and a robust back-up plan (i.e. pursue a degree in something other than "airplanes") - there's just too many people who have done everything "right" and never get a chance to grab the brass ring.