FAA Age 60 rule rescinded

[Tail Gunner Joe]

Source:
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is loosening the age restrictions for older pilots, the agency said Wednesday...

 

[DCAA320]

Had a 5.5 hour flight as an IRO the other day, captain demanded 2 hours of rest, wtf. He claimed it was required per 117, I said that's not exactly how it reads.

I seriously said, if you need a 2 hour break on a 5.5 hour flight, you shouldn't be fu(king flying.

 

[HAL]

I seriously said, if you need a 2 hour break on a 5.5 hour flight, you shouldn't be fu(king flying.

If you're done after a 5.5 leg, then no he doesn't. However, since you were an IRO, something tells me you had more flying to do after that leg. So yes, he did require a 2 hour break in the last half of the duty period before his landing.

HAL

 

[DCAA320]

If you're done after a 5.5 leg, then no he doesn't. However, since you were an IRO, something tells me you had more flying to do after that leg. So yes, he did require a 2 hour break in the last half of the duty period before his landing.

HAL

Nope, that was it, quickie with tailwinds PHL-DUB

Incorrect, it needs to be made available to him, his words were "it is required."

Now if he had just said dude, got crappy sleep last night I am gonna take two hours, that's no big deal, I wouldn't care. He said 117 requires.

On AUA turns (4 hours 15 min), sometimes the flying pilot doesn't take a break at all.

Last time I flew with the guy he slept all the way to SNN in the cockpit so he annoys me.


(c) No certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment under this section unless during the flight duty period:
(1) Two consecutive hours in the second half of the flight duty period are available for in-flight rest for the pilot flying the aircraft during landing.
(2) Ninety consecutive minutes are available for in-flight rest for the pilot performing monitoring duties during landing.
(d) No certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment involving more than three flight segments under this section.
(e) At all times during flight, at least one flightcrew member qualified in accordance with ? 121.543(b) (3) (i) of this chapter must be at the flight controls.

 

[Boxboy]

Get ready for more frequent airport flybys at FLxxx!

 

[HAL]

DCAA320, the interpretation from the FAA is that the 'made available' language is directed towards the airline, so they will staff the flights accordingly, and have procedures in place to allow the rest to occur. For the pilots it doesn't mean 'take it if you want to'. It means 'you will take it, and you will take it when we said to'. It's not optional.

HAL

 

[DCAA320]

Hi Hal,
I think it's optional due to all the variables. Like our Aruba flight, we have an IRO on a 4.25 hour flight, no normal guy needs a 2 hour break. I have never seen anyone take one. If the FAA wanted it to be mandatory, why weren't they specific and say so?

I find the 3rd break the worse, lights, food service, and such flying east coast to Europe.

The instance in the 5.5 hour flight was the first time it has come up on my flights since 117 inception.

Another example is if we are flying to RIO and the captain is the only one with actual experience going in, well, we don't want him back there snoozing.

Anyway, enjoy the sun out there.

 

[Flopgut]

I seriously said, if you need a 2 hour break on a 5.5 hour flight, you shouldn't be fu(king flying.

I would have said the same.

IMO you're right on the interpretation as well

 

[Flopgut]

Age increase has been very destructive to the profession. Compounded by mergers, so many pilots will simply never get senior enough to be in a position to take real advantage of more years of work. Most pilots I fly with are 5-8 years older than me, and they simply want out, ASAP. When I flew FO, it was with all the super senior pro 65 guys. Let me tell you, if those guys had found themselves in the dire straits most FOs do now? The outcry of unfairness would be beyond imagination.

 

[kwick]

Age increase has been very destructive to the profession. Compounded by mergers, so many pilots will simply never get senior enough to be in a position to take real advantage of more years of work. Most pilots I fly with are 5-8 years older than me, and they simply want out, ASAP. When I flew FO, it was with all the super senior pro 65 guys. Let me tell you, if those guys had found themselves in the dire straits most FOs do now? The outcry of unfairness would be beyond imagination.

And just think, if we discriminated against Female pilots and Black pilots
you could really move up that Seniority list to your rightful place.

 

[xkuzme1]

Over 60 was to further help the most selfish generation in history.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Over 60 was to further help the most selfish generation in history.

about sums it up.

 

[livin'thesim]

And just think, if we discriminated against Female pilots and Black pilots
you could really move up that Seniority list to your rightful place.

Nice skirt, Nancy.

Only the pu$$iest of men whine like b---es over "discrrrriiiiiminaaation!!!!'.

Seriously, way too many guys have completely given themselves over to the whiny, victim-oriented way of thinking. You're like, the Lena Dunham of FI. Lololzlzlzlz.!!!!!

 

[Flopgut]

And just think, if we discriminated against Female pilots and Black pilots
you could really move up that Seniority list to your rightful place.

It's fascinating how you can't evolve in a debate. We should all maybe be feeling a little discriminated against right now. Because people aren't interested in this career any more. Smart people of any race or either gender don't show interest, because we act foolishly as a profession.

 

[slaquer5]

And just think, if we discriminated against Female pilots and Black pilots
you could really move up that Seniority list to your rightful place.

Crazy as this statement is, it's not even true



What percent of blacks and women are airline pilots ?

I would not call moving up 6%. really moving up . That is if everyone of them was senior to you.


Where as I am sure most over age 60 pilots are senior to you .


I agree with the others posters ,this is a crazy off the wall comment .

 

[rjacobs]

Im not up on the international rules(just a lowely regional CA), but an IRO on a 5.5 hour flight? Seems excessive. Unless I am missing something. Does it have to do with the time zone change? Required on the way back so they just staff it going over too?

And an IRO on a turn that wont exceed 9 hours(under most circumstances?)?

Again, I am not up to speed on 117 and international flights.

 

[densoo]

Had a 5.5 hour flight as an IRO the other day, captain demanded 2 hours of rest, wtf. He claimed it was required per 117, I said that's not exactly how it reads?

"Demanded"? Was 3.5 hours of sleep in first class not enough? How dare he wake you from your rest. Who do these PICs think they are?

 

[waveflyer]

Over 60 was to further help the most selfish generation in history.

Yep- well said

If only they cared and could bring themselves to at least admit it to themselves-
Their lifestyle in many professions has been inflated by the generation before and after their own.

 

[DCAA320]

Im not up on the international rules(just a lowely regional CA), but an IRO on a 5.5 hour flight? Seems excessive. Unless I am missing something. Does it have to do with the time zone change? Required on the way back so they just staff it going over too? YES

And an IRO on a turn that wont exceed 9 hours(under most circumstances?)?

Again, I am not up to speed on 117 and international flights.

More so for return flight headed west from DUB. Today it was blocked 7:55 (DUB-PHL) so if there was a delay in Ireland things would get close and require the IRO.

Not enough time zone changes.

Just like you sound, I was like WTF when he said 117 required 2 hours.

 

[DCAA320]

"Demanded"? Was 3.5 hours of sleep in first class not enough? How dare he wake you from your rest. Who do these PICs think they are?

Hey dumbass, I didn't need any rest on that flight. What I resented was his attitude, his misquoting 117, and him coming to work tired. On taxi out I told him get back on the taxi line, which was lighted.

If you read the thread this guy slept most of our previous flight, to Shannon, in the cockpit so when he incorrectly states what 117 requires, YES I was IN HIS FACE.

PIC, I was single piloted across the Atlantic.

PIC, that gives you a right to be a lazy ass and stupid? I don't even sleep during the breaks. It was an 8 hour duty day, Jesus F Christ.

3.5, no moron, he stated the pilot monitoring gets 90 minutes also, I just said MF go take your break. He misinterpreted the rule, like you. Do the math. We bring everyone up 30 minutes prior to landing.

Don't know your background, taking off and landing is generally uneventful in B767, the decision making in between sometimes takes the most thought.

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

Sorry, DCAA320, you get no sympathy from me.
If the PIC wants to sleep all the way to DUB and the SIC wants to sleep all the way back, and you have to sit up front the whole way (except takeoff and landing) -- It is your fault for bidding the I.R.O. position.

Protip: On your next monthly bid try - Avoid Capt. xxxx, or Avoid IRO.

 

[kwick]

Nice skirt, Nancy.

Only the pu$$iest of men whine like b---es over "discrrrriiiiiminaaation!!!!'.

Seriously, way too many guys have completely given themselves over to the whiny, victim-oriented way of thinking. You're like, the Lena Dunham of FI. Lololzlzlzlz.!!!!!

Hey the KKK is calling, they want
to return the the fifties with you, where you
can discriminate against everyone
that isn't just like you!

Grow up!

 

[kwick]

Crazy as this statement is, it's not even true



What percent of blacks and women are airline pilots ?

I would not call moving up 6%. really moving up . That is if everyone of them was senior to you.


Where as I am sure most over age 60 pilots are senior to you .


I agree with the others posters ,this is a crazy off the wall comment .

Yeah, but if you throw in Hispanics, and Jews, and Catholics, and Muslims,
and everyone else that isn't just like you, you'll move up even more.

 

[weasel_lips]

Close this thread.

 

[DCAA320]

Sorry, DCAA320, you get no sympathy from me.
If the PIC wants to sleep all the way to DUB and the SIC wants to sleep all the way back, and you have to sit up front the whole way (except takeoff and landing) -- It is your fault for bidding the I.R.O. position.

Protip: On your next monthly bid try - Avoid Capt. xxxx, or Avoid IRO.

I agree with you 100% when I am IRO, but he cannot say "117 requires it."

When I flew with him as part as a 2 man crew, me and him, he slept his ass off in the cockpit.

I picked up the trip in open time.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey the KKK is calling, they want
to return the the fifties with you, where you
can discriminate against everyone
that isn't just like you!

Grow up!

Yeah, but if you throw in Hispanics, and Jews, and Catholics, and Muslims,
and everyone else that isn't just like you, you'll move up even more.

^^^^^^^
Age 65 poster boy

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry, DCAA320, you get no sympathy from me.
If the PIC wants to sleep all the way to DUB and the SIC wants to sleep all the way back, and you have to sit up front the whole way (except takeoff and landing) -- It is your fault for bidding the I.R.O. position.

Protip: On your next monthly bid try - Avoid Capt. xxxx, or Avoid IRO.

Not even close to how you want to use an IRO.

But yeah, don't bid it is good advice. Then also pass the word on how the CA does things. That will take care of itself pretty quick

 

[densoo]

Hey dumbass, I didn't need any rest on that flight. What I resented was his attitude, his misquoting 117, and him coming to work tired. On taxi out I told him get back on the taxi line, which was lighted.

If you read the thread this guy slept most of our previous flight, to Shannon, in the cockpit so when he incorrectly states what 117 requires, YES I was IN HIS FACE.

PIC, I was single piloted across the Atlantic.

PIC, that gives you a right to be a lazy ass and stupid? I don't even sleep during the breaks. It was an 8 hour duty day, Jesus F Christ.

3.5, no moron, he stated the pilot monitoring gets 90 minutes also, I just said MF go take your break. He misinterpreted the rule, like you. Do the math. We bring everyone up 30 minutes prior to landing.

Don't know your background, taking off and landing is generally uneventful in B767, the decision making in between sometimes takes the most thought.

You did right by telling him to stay on the taxi line. Safety first. Did you also tell him that you thought he certified fit for duty in error and that flying fatigued is unsafe? While not required, it is encouraged to elevate this issue if you feel strongly enough about it (for instance strong enough to post on a public forum how a captain "slept all the way to SNN in the cockpit" and "he slept his ass off in the cockpit"). An FSAP may be in order.

As far as your 3.5 hours in first class, I stand corrected, it was only 3.0 hours.

 

[Dan Roman]

Hey dumbass, I didn't need any rest on that flight. What I resented was his attitude, his misquoting 117, and him coming to work tired. On taxi out I told him get back on the taxi line, which was lighted.

If you read the thread this guy slept most of our previous flight, to Shannon, in the cockpit so when he incorrectly states what 117 requires, YES I was IN HIS FACE.

PIC, I was single piloted across the Atlantic.

PIC, that gives you a right to be a lazy ass and stupid? I don't even sleep during the breaks. It was an 8 hour duty day, Jesus F Christ.

3.5, no moron, he stated the pilot monitoring gets 90 minutes also, I just said MF go take your break. He misinterpreted the rule, like you. Do the math. We bring everyone up 30 minutes prior to landing.

Don't know your background, taking off and landing is generally uneventful in B767, the decision making in between sometimes takes the most thought.

This sounds like a CRM issue, plain and simple....not sure what it has to do with age 60??? There are jerks at any age.
Judging from your posts I'm wondering if the poor communication was a 2 way deal, it usually is when CRM issues pop up.

 

[DCAA320]

As far as your 3.5 hours in first class, I stand corrected, it was only 3.0 hours.

I wasn't clear enough, 2.0 for him, 1.5 for SIC, which once again, I wouldn't mind, just don't tell me 117 requires this.

Just go ahead, say I am a wus, and I am going back to nap. I'll say cool, have the FAs bring me some coffee, problem solved.

Have a nice day, off to Europe