Fabulous FJ uniforms...

[EngineThunder]

just makes you stand out more to the criminals

wow look there is a Pilot he has money

Not wearing it around town, just sayin'

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

The SMS that was put in place under Bombardier, by FJ's former Safety manager who was let go after DAC purchased you, correct?

Let go, I would check your source. When people are let go the email says "effective immediately", his was the standard 2 weeks notice. He decided to move to a different company.

The SMS is still in place and would still prevent this type of issue from getting through.

KR told our management he wanted all pilots to fly from only from the left seat to make it more familiar for your folks coming over. Due to overwhelming negative feedback from the pilots the plan was scrapped. Now any pilot can fly from either seat on any leg.

Guess our management team was willing to stand up to KR when the pilots said no.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

"We understand things can change. I think you guys live under the illusion that you have control. KR can change your uniform tomorrow also.

Does it say anywhere in your contract that KR can allow your pilots to request to transfer to another company while being allowed to go on LOA? Is that in your contract or something that KR came up with to get what he wants?

Maybe your union was given the up illusion of control by being allowed to give input, however before they were asked I am sure the plan was already finalized.

I think you need to wake up and realize you are equally as vulnerable."

2010 TA, p. 60:

9.1 Company Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The Company will issue a pilot the following uniform articles and accessories at the time of hire: two black pants; two neckties for males or two cross-ties for females; one set of shoulder boards; two polo shirts; one v-neck sweater (upon request); one light weight jacket; one all-weather jacket; and one set of wings. TA 06/12/08

9.2 Pilot Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The pilot shall be responsible for the following uniform articles and accessories: white dress pilot shirts with flap pockets and epaulette holders, black business shoes, black socks and a black belt. TA 06/12/08

[There's also LOA 9-001 that addresses pins, shirts, & wings.]

TWA All Unions have vulnerabilities & the 1108 is no exception. But I think you've hit on an important point: The Union is not all-powerful. We can't dictate or demand policy - even though we've certainly been portrayed as doing so.

What we do is defend the contract. In short, we react to management's actions (except for negotiations, which are initiated by the Union).

That's an important concept to recognize & understand.

Poking fun at a potential uniform change is one thing. More importantly was how the change came about. Was there substantial & legitimate input from the pilots? If so, great: You have only yourselves to applaud or blame.

If not, if you - meaning the uniform committee - were only given the illusion of input, then how is that worthwhile?

 

[jetwash]

Can some one please describe what this uniform is going to look like?

So far I got silver pants, brown belt, black shoe.

I ask my FO co workers not to laugh too hard since we all know KR's ultimate goal is for all of us to be one big family and KR will also choose our halloween costumes as well.

 

[slowtation capt]

​

Section 4.1.1 of the current FOM

4. The aircraft navigation lights, tail logo lights, and ice detection lights will be on if external or APU power is available. The beacon should be turned on before the passengers arrive at the aircraft. The cabin should be fully illuminated including the steps, isle lights, overhead lights, and galley lights. The lighting should be reduced to a comfortable level for the environmental conditions once the passengers are onboard and seated.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

"We understand things can change. I think you guys live under the illusion that you have control. KR can change your uniform tomorrow also.

Does it say anywhere in your contract that KR can allow your pilots to request to transfer to another company while being allowed to go on LOA? Is that in your contract or something that KR came up with to get what he wants?

Maybe your union was given the up illusion of control by being allowed to give input, however before they were asked I am sure the plan was already finalized.

I think you need to wake up and realize you are equally as vulnerable."

2010 TA, p. 60:

9.1 Company Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The Company will issue a pilot the following uniform articles and accessories at the time of hire: two black pants; two neckties for males or two cross-ties for females; one set of shoulder boards; two polo shirts; one v-neck sweater (upon request); one light weight jacket; one all-weather jacket; and one set of wings. TA 06/12/08

9.2 Pilot Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The pilot shall be responsible for the following uniform articles and accessories: white dress pilot shirts with flap pockets and epaulette holders, black business shoes, black socks and a black belt. TA 06/12/08

[There's also LOA 9-001 that addresses pins, shirts, & wings.]

TWA All Unions have vulnerabilities & the 1108 is no exception. But I think you've hit on an important point: The Union is not all-powerful. We can't dictate or demand policy - even though we've certainly been portrayed as doing so.

What we do is defend the contract. In short, we react to management's actions (except for negotiations, which are initiated by the Union).

That's an important concept to recognize & understand.

Poking fun at a potential uniform change is one thing. More importantly was how the change came about. Was there substantial & legitimate input from the pilots? If so, great: You have only yourselves to applaud or blame.

If not, if you - meaning the uniform committee - were only given the illusion of input, then how is that worthwhile?

We are given an initial uniform and $200 per year for replacement items.

I understand you can't demand policy, but by us not having final say into our new uniforms aren't you saying we should have someone you don't?

If your union truly had a "seat at the table" you wouldn't have to be reactionary since you would be involved in all policy changes before they went into effect.

In our survey the majority of the pilots stated they wanted to keep the "airline" style uniform. It sounds like what is being proposed meets that definition. And NO, th are not looking at getting silver pants.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Not only did the poll and survey indicate that the pilot group OVERWHEMINGLY wanted to keep an airline style uniform and black shoes, they also wanted to keep a tie, epaulets, and wings. Whether not the survey and poll or the letter that was submitted to the Company had any real effect on Kenn's decision is yet to be determined.

 

[rajflyboy]

Not only did the poll and survey indicate that the pilot group OVERWHEMINGLY wanted to keep an airline style uniform and black shoes, they also wanted to keep a tie, epaulets, and wings. Whether not the survey and poll or the letter that was submitted to the Company had any real effect on Kenn's decision is yet to be determined.

Sounds like a lot of pilots who sleep in their uniforms at night after they spent 2 hours reading their POH while in airline uniform

 

[shanes123]

Flex actually has the sharpest uniform.(In my opinion of any of the Fractionals) Why would anyone want to change it? But if KR has his way and he will. We will all be looking like Ushers at the Movie Theater AGAIN..KR I know you and your cronies read this..So News Flash..Your style sucks. The pilots hate it..Leave uniforms alone and spend money on a pay raise or a 401k match or up that out dated per diem to 70 bucks a day..

 

[Praetorian]

"The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better."

George Orwell, 1984

 

[shanes123]

Has anyone at Flex noticed that KR management is keeping all you guys busy with issues like changing uniforms? Has he brought up the dedicated crewing non sense again? Or how about bonus for flying more AKA: fly broke illegal airplanes for more money? How about his open door policy?

 

[doh]

Dedicated crewing is simply a union busting technique. Each is its own business that you have to interview for a position with. Five guys who unionize are easier to squash than the whole group. It wouldn't be on the table if there wasn't already a union on the property at DAC.

 

[BlueNose]

Let go, I would check your source. When people are let go the email says "effective immediately", his was the standard 2 weeks notice. He decided to move to a different company.

The SMS is still in place and would still prevent this type of issue from getting through.

KR told our management he wanted all pilots to fly from only from the left seat to make it more familiar for your folks coming over. Due to overwhelming negative feedback from the pilots the plan was scrapped. Now any pilot can fly from either seat on any leg.

Guess our management team was willing to stand up to KR when the pilots said no.

It's your story dude, you tell it how you want. I guess experienced managers often leave a company they've been with for more than 10 years, right after a buyout or merger, because something better happened to come along just then. Couldn't be any other reason. I think you are a trusting soul, just the kind KR used to screen for during the interview process with the PI test. You've read his book, right?

Tell us how robust that SMS is in 2-3 years. And again, good luck, I really do hope it works out for you all. I just wouldn't put any money on it.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Has anyone at Flex noticed that KR management is keeping all you guys busy with issues like changing uniforms? Has he brought up the dedicated crewing non sense again? Or how about bonus for flying more AKA: fly broke illegal airplanes for more money? How about his open door policy?

Not sure FJ crews are really worried about that. I believe it was one of your pilots that started this thread.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

]It's your story dude, you tell it how you want.[/B] I guess experienced managers often leave a company they've been with for more than 10 years, right after a buyout or merger, because something better happened to come along just then. Couldn't be any other reason. I think you are a trusting soul, just the kind KR used to screen for during the interview process with the PI test. You've read his book, right?

Tell us how robust that SMS is in 2-3 years. And again, good luck, I really do hope it works out for you all. I just wouldn't put any money on it.

Have you ever met DR?

He is a stand up guy. He chose to leave and it didn't have anything to do with the DAC buyout.

 

[BlueNose]

Have you ever met DR? He is a stand up guy.

I didn't say or imply that he's not. Being a stand-up guy probably goes a long way toward explaining why he left.

How many mergers/ buyouts have you been through? We've seen 4 at FO. The string of management departures within a year after each was not because they all just needed a change of pace. And they weren't accompanied by an 'effective immediately, Joe has left to pursue other opportunities' email. It's more subtle than that.

Keep on trusting, and let us know how it all works out.

 

[SDCFI]

Dedicated crewing is simply a union busting technique. Each is its own business that you have to interview for a position with. Five guys who unionize are easier to squash than the whole group. It wouldn't be on the table if there wasn't already a union on the property at DAC.

You're on the right track but I think it's more a reward for the FO pilots that don't care for the union and want out. I don't see any pro-union guys coming over because they lose all the protections. And you can't unionize 5 pilots on a hybrid because they're still Flexjet employees on the seniority list. Pretty slick move by KR if you ask me. Nothing boosts morale more than having to interview for your own job and probably losing out to another company's pilots!

 

[The Architect]

Ummm...Yes...That's correct...

So you are saying that at FO KR couldn't change your uniform. I am sure you have a committee, but does it say you can stop him from doing that without your appoval?

Uniform changes are contractual:

SECTION 9 UNIFORMS ​

9.1 Company Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The Company will issue a pilot the following uniform articles and accessories at the time of hire: two black pants; two neckties for males or two cross-ties for females; one set of shoulder boards; two polo shirts; one v-neck sweater (upon request); one light weight jacket; one all-weather jacket; and one set of wings.

9.2 Pilot Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The pilot shall be responsible for the following uniform articles and accessories: white dress pilot shirts with flap pockets and epaulette holders, black business shoes, black socks and a black belt.

Enjoy those pinstripes...[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[ProFracPilot]

Uniform changes are contractual:

SECTION 9 UNIFORMS ​

9.1 Company Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
The Company will issue a pilot the following uniform articles and accessories at the time of hire: two black pants; two neckties for males or two cross-ties for females; one set of shoulder boards; two polo shirts; one v-neck sweater (upon request); one light weight jacket; one all-weather jacket; and one set of wings.

9.2 Pilot Provided Uniform Articles and Accessories
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The pilot shall be responsible for the following uniform articles and accessories: white dress pilot shirts with flap pockets and epaulette holders, black business shoes, black socks and a black belt.

Enjoy those pinstripes...[/FONT][/FONT]

Huh.

The company has been providing my white dress pilot shirts with flap pockets and epaulette holders, black business shoes AND black belt at no charge to me for years.

Has anyone grieved this gross violation of section 9 of the CBA? [emoji57]

Oh, and where's my wings?

 

[eightdriver]

Where are the pictures...