Allegiant upgrades FO while still in new hire training

[Daytonaflyer]

A new hire MD-80 first officer was recently awarded a captain position at Allegiant's HOM base (perpetual TDY base) while still in initial new hire training. This has to be an industry record. Meanwhile, senior first officers are deferring upgrade by the dozen to avoid the constant TDY that tends to happen when you are junior at Allegiant. How can the FAA allow this to happen? Talk about dangerous...

 

[rettofly]

A new hire MD-80 first officer was recently awarded a captain position at Allegiant's HOM base (perpetual TDY base) while still in initial new hire training. This has to be an industry record. Meanwhile, senior first officers are deferring upgrade by the dozen to avoid the constant TDY that tends to happen when you are junior at Allegiant. How can the FAA allow this to happen? Talk about dangerous...

Is he qualified to be a PIC on the aircraft to which he will be assigned? If yes, why would the FAA have an interest?

Is the concept of Street Captain foreign to you?

 

[Mr Wu]

Is the concept of Street Captain foreign to you?

At any place other than a scumbag regional? Yes, it is a foreign concept.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Is he qualified to be a PIC on the aircraft to which he will be assigned? If yes, why would the FAA have an interest?

Is the concept of Street Captain foreign to you?

I'm assuming you haven't flown the MD-80. It's a little more antiquated than your average regional jet and can bite you if you don't have much experience flying it. Allegiant allows green on green flying, brand new captains fly with brand new FO's. To go straight into a captain position on this airplane with no prior experience on the DC-9 type could be unsafe.

 

[jynxyjericho]

The LCC's will become tomorrows regionals as the current regionals evaporate. The classes are full I assume?

 

[B6Driver]

I'm assuming you haven't flown the MD-80. It's a little more antiquated than your average regional jet and can bite you if you don't have much experience flying it. Allegiant allows green on green flying, brand new captains fly with brand new FO's. To go straight into a captain position on this airplane with no prior experience on the DC-9 type could be unsafe.

Please stop the drama.

 

[BeachBummer]

I would imagine that the carriers insurance requires a pic to have minimum times and he meets them. If he passed his type ride, especially in the current environment over there he's good to go. This is no different than a senior 777 or 747 FO that decides to go fly the left seat in the 80 for AA or DAL. Jetblue gets 320 guys in the left seat of the 190 who've never touched an embaer. This is the industry.

It's a plane. Be safe have fun.

 

[rettofly]

I'm assuming you haven't flown the MD-80. It's a little more antiquated than your average regional jet and can bite you if you don't have much experience flying it. Allegiant allows green on green flying, brand new captains fly with brand new FO's. To go straight into a captain position on this airplane with no prior experience on the DC-9 type could be unsafe.

Guilty as charged. I have not flown the MD-80. Should we consider the possibility that this pilot has flown the MD-80 in the course of previous employment?

Green on green goes away if the "green" captain already has a couple of thousand hours in type.

 

[bafanguy]

A new hire MD-80 first officer was recently awarded a captain position at Allegiant's HOM base (perpetual TDY base) while still in initial new hire training.

How do you know this happened ?

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

Pilots are such drama queens. Upgrading into an airplane that someone hasn't flown before has been happening before all of us were born and it will happen long after we are all dust. This is really about a person who doesn't like XYZ company and the company today happens to be Allegiant. If person passes ground school, sim evaluations and IOE what is your gripe exactly? And save the he needs some experience in the airplane argument because how do companies get initial cadre check airmen captains qualified into planes they've never flown before?

 

[BeachBummer]

That's dangerous!

 

[Narco-leftseat]

Yep,
They can upgrade immediately if you haven't learned by now, the FAA does on occasion let you be "Dead Right"

 

[tomgoodman]

My cousin Boudreaux got hired by ultra-low-cost Turnover Airlines. So many people were quitting that he became Chief Pilot while still on probation.

 

[rettofly]

My cousin Boudreaux got hired by ultra-low-cost Turnover Airlines. So many people were quitting that he became Chief Pilot while still on probation.

Must be a slacker.

Should be DO or VP-Ops.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Pilots are such drama queens. Upgrading into an airplane that someone hasn't flown before has been happening before all of us were born and it will happen long after we are all dust. This is really about a person who doesn't like XYZ company and the company today happens to be Allegiant. If person passes ground school, sim evaluations and IOE what is your gripe exactly? And save the he needs some experience in the airplane argument because how do companies get initial cadre check airmen captains qualified into planes they've never flown before?

Yeah, what this guy said. I know the Shady-80 isn't an Easy Bee trainer - but it's not a TU-144 either. They fly these things all over the globe, occaisionally by some yocal who can't find his butt with either hand, and usually everyone walks away. For all we know, this guy might have thousands of hours on the MD from some other random airline. God, all kinds of guys upgrading to the 80 at my company who've never flown one - believe me, they're not astronauts. (Usually.)

 

[CaptSeth]

Shouldn't the OP be happy that there are opportunities being granted to qualified new hires at that company?

 

[Jim]

Shouldn't the OP be happy that there are opportunities being granted to qualified new hires at that company?

Not when the opportunities are there because the work rules, pay and QOL are so far below industry standard for the type of planes and flying the company does.

 

[Mr Wu]

God, all kinds of guys upgrading to the 80 at my company who've never flown one - believe me, they're not astronauts. (Usually.)

Was your company's training department shut down by the feds? Was the band aid your company put on it so flimsy that the feds are requiring orals be done at the FSDO?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Was your company's training department shut down by the feds? Was the band aid your company put on it so flimsy that the feds are requiring orals be done at the FSDO?

Nope. I was not aware that happened at ALG, if it did. Sounds like a solid operation.

 

[Booster]

A new hire MD-80 first officer was recently awarded a captain position at Allegiant's HOM base (perpetual TDY base) while still in initial new hire training. This has to be an industry record. Meanwhile, senior first officers are deferring upgrade by the dozen to avoid the constant TDY that tends to happen when you are junior at Allegiant. How can the FAA allow this to happen? Talk about dangerous...

Did he/she have a Type in the a/c already?

 

[flyboyike]

Yeah, what this guy said. I know the Shady-80 isn't an Easy Bee trainer - but it's not a TU-144 either...

What I wouldn't give to fly the -144...

 

[CX880]

A new hire MD-80 first officer was recently awarded a captain position at Allegiant's HOM base (perpetual TDY base) while still in initial new hire training. This has to be an industry record. Meanwhile, senior first officers are deferring upgrade by the dozen to avoid the constant TDY that tends to happen when you are junior at Allegiant. How can the FAA allow this to happen? Talk about dangerous...

Things must really suck there huh?

 

[Mr Wu]

Did he/she have a Type in the a/c already?

You guys are missing the point. Allegiant doesn't care if he had 2,000 hrs or 20,000. Doesn't care if he was a captain before or not, doesn't care if he was typed or not. They don't upgrade out of seniority any more (except for the seat lock crap). The guy was simply the most senior guy that bid it. Over 200 F/Os senior to him bypassed it so they wouldn't have to deal with the TDY crap.

 

[maru657]

Some yocal from backwards or never heard of it may fly this airplane but I remember an AA crew and the Chainsaw 1 approach into Bradley Int. Or maybe the renovation of the approach light system into Denver. AA seems to have a hard time with Douglass aircraft, like the DC-10 between the runways in Dallas. Maybe the FAA can simply rule that some company's are not allowed to fly certain aircraft.

 

[B727FA]

I think Daytona and Wu are making some pretty big assumptions: that the pilot is coming from a regional, isn't experienced, not typed, has barely 1500 hrs, can't handle it, etc. I'm less worried about an upgrade in initial than I am about a couple of hot heads who have a penchant for the hyperbole.

 

[labbats]

I think Daytona and Wu are making some pretty big assumptions: that the pilot is coming from a regional, isn't experienced, not typed, has barely 1500 hrs, can't handle it, etc. I'm less worried about an upgrade in initial than I am about a couple of hot heads who have a penchant for the hyperbole.

All of you outside of Allegiant assume that things are the same here as your airline. They are not.

We don't fly to Omaha, we fly to Grand Island Nebraska.

Our planes had nine engine failures in six weeks this last spring. That's about one in six of our total fleet.

Dispatch releases must be assumed to be canned routes with at least one gotcha hidden somewhere.

We have turnover on ramp and gate personnel that would put a fast food restaurant to shame. Assuming they did their job right is waiting for a trip to explain yourself.

Our MD80s have several variations in our fleet. Different layouts and placement of important switches. Different FMS systems.

Add in several more details in the same manner and you'll see that a newhire upgrading to captain isn't the same as at Skywest or United.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Some yocal from backwards or never heard of it may fly this airplane but I remember an AA crew and the Chainsaw 1 approach into Bradley Int. Or maybe the renovation of the approach light system into Denver. AA seems to have a hard time with Douglass aircraft, like the DC-10 between the runways in Dallas. Maybe the FAA can simply rule that some company's are not allowed to fly certain aircraft.

I think the AA BDL crew hosed up a QFE calculation which resulted in the ol' woodchipper incident.

 

[Blue Dude]

I think the AA BDL crew hosed up a QFE calculation which resulted in the ol' woodchipper incident.

They used an old altimeter setting when PRESFR and dipped below the MDA besides. Did an amazing job of flying the aircraft after initial impact though.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Ok, yep. In other words, it wasn't because it was an MD-80. In fact, the sturdiness of the 80 probably helped them walk away.

 

[imacdog]

I heard that various company bang up other aircraft types as well. Might just be a rumor though.