Delta pilots-accuracy in reporting re:your contract

[Roomwithaview]

On the poon there are two camps and it would help those of us that are interested in accuracy if you could chime in. Thanks

Interesting point.

DAL 65 x (263 + 8 + 6.50) = $18,037.50 per month
Plus 2% 401k (no matching) = $360.75
Plus 15% DPSP = $2705.62
No profit sharing guarantee
Total at minimum guarantee at top rate = $21,103.87

SWA 88 x 189.78 + (no overrides + no future raise) = $16,700.64
No 401k unmatched contribution
No A/B fund contribution
No profit sharing guarantee
Total at minimum guarantee at top rate = $16,700.64


At the minimum guarantee at the top rate of each airline SWA pilots need a 26.4% raise in guaranteed money to equal what the Delta pilots have.

They got approx $200,000 each for northwest merger.

Then this:

Not sure about all this, but I gotta buddy at DAL, had to go back to 737 FO so he can fly weekdays (family stuff). He says his takehome pay is $7500 a month. He's a 17 year guy.

 

[daviator]

Ya, after they take out alimony/child support. Base rate on the 73 is $143.84. Do the math.

 

[redflyer65]

That DL 737 FO number looks pretty low unless he's dropping flying as well.

 

[General Lee]

At DL the pilots get a 15% DC fund retirement contribution without adding a dime themselves , each month. Whatever he/she makes for the month, let's say $10K to make it easier, they would get $1500 on top of that $10K in a Fidelity account. They can also add extra if they want. Profit sharing has been a big deal too. Last year (actually paid out on Feb 14th of this year) was 8.25% of your 2013 W2. This year's portion (paid out Feb 14th of 2015) supposedly will be around 15%, or 2 months of pay checks, plus there is an additional 15% DC fund contribution for the profit sharing check too.

Profit sharing is not guaranteed, but Consolidation and bag fees have really helped achieve more. Huge hiring has occurred so far this year (100 new hires each in June and July, then 85 a month through next April, with 50 a month after that), and retirements haven't really even started in earnest yet. Approx 5000 pilots will retire over the next 10 years at each of the big 3 legacy airlines. Not bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

Gl

At DL the pilots get a 15% DC fund retirement contribution without adding a dime themselves , each month. Whatever he/she makes for the month, let's say $10K to make it easier, they would get $1500 on top of that $10K in a Fidelity account. They can also add extra if they want. Profit sharing has been a big deal too. Last year (actually paid out on Feb 14th of this year) was 8.25% of your 2013 W2. This year's portion (paid out Feb 14th of 2015) supposedly will be around 15%, or 2 months of pay checks, plus there is an additional 15% DC fund contribution for the profit sharing check too.

Profit sharing is not guaranteed, but Consolidation and bag fees have really helped achieve more. Huge hiring has occurred so far this year (100 new hires each in June and July, then 85 a month through next April, with 50 a month after that), and retirements haven't really even started in earnest yet. Approx 5000 pilots will retire over the next 10 years at each of the big 3 legacy airlines. Not bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks for that. Can you speak to the pay scenario quoted at the top? Which one is accurate? RWAV

 

[800Dog]

Fifteen years at Delta and fly the 737 as FO. Take home typically about 7k per month. That does not include any other compensation, DC plan etc.. Our 3% cola this year was totally inadequate considering our profits. Hourly rate still well below what it was in 2000 and that does not take into account that funny thing called inflation. Voted no for our current contract. We will get em next time..............

 

[General Lee]

Fifteen years at Delta and fly the 737 as FO. Take home typically about 7k per month. That does not include any other compensation, DC plan etc.. Our 3% cola this year was totally inadequate considering our profits. Hourly rate still well below what it was in 2000 and that does not take into account that funny thing called inflation. Voted no for our current contract. We will get em next time..............

That is true, the 3% raise this year was inadequate, and negotiating begins early next year for the next contract. But, if you're a 15 year guy, you do have plenty of chances for double pay greenslips, especially this Summer. They have been handing them out like candy. If you live in base, then it would be easier, although they do give them a day prior often. If you're a 15 year guy, you also have 4 weeks of vacation. On vacation months you can also white slip an extra 22:45 (the credit of the vacation days) for supplemental pay too and get paid well over the average line value. Plus, and this is different than SWA, you can always try to bid a larger plane and increase pay that way.

There is no doubt DALPA has to do better on this next contract. Fingers crossed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Roomwithaview]

That is true, the 3% raise this year was inadequate, and negotiating begins early next year for the next contract. But, if you're a 15 year guy, you do have plenty of chances for double pay greenslips, especially this Summer. They have been handing them out like candy. If you live in base, then it would be easier, although they do give them a day prior often. If you're a 15 year guy, you also have 4 weeks of vacation. On vacation months you can also white slip an extra 22:45 (the credit of the vacation days) for supplemental pay too and get paid well over the average line value. Plus, and this is different than SWA, you can always try to bid a larger plane and increase pay that way.

There is no doubt DALPA has to do better on this next contract. Fingers crossed!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Well our NC just lifted their skirts and showed they are wearing diapers. If what they are alluding is anywhere near our ask then chalk another one up for the professional negotiators of SWApa

 

[General Lee]

Well our NC just lifted their skirts and showed they are wearing diapers. If what they are alluding is anywhere near our ask then chalk another one up for the professional negotiators of SWApa

The CDO issue (continuous duty overnights) showed that the pilots can voice their opinions loudly and force change, even after it was negotiated by the NC. Looks like the negotiators have figured out that even they can be over ruled.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Throttle back GL.....

The negotiators didn't go back to the table for CDOs....they had an LOA without CDos all wrapped up in a bow just in case they caught crap from the MEC, which they certainly did. This one was in the can and took zero time to re-roll out.

The negotiators knew where this may head.

 

[General Lee]

Throttle back GL.....

The negotiators didn't go back to the table for CDOs....they had an LOA without CDos all wrapped up in a bow just in case they caught crap from the MEC, which they certainly did. This one was in the can and took zero time to re-roll out.

The negotiators knew where this may head.

The MEC and LEC members got a huge amount of instant feedback, mostly from mad pilots. If that doesn't influence the NC in upcoming negotiations, I don't know what will. It tells them there will be backlash for their poor decisions in the negotiations, and DALPA/ALPA doesn't need anymore backlash. There is enough anger due to JV screw ups and the CDO issue already. They have to pay attention to what the pilots want and need, not just what management wants. No more trading profit sharing percentages for higher pay rates. (Which paid for the increases).


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

I'm on year 8 pay on the 7ER in NYC. I work a lot, a lot. Green slips in the summer. White slips in the winter. I average $13400/mo gross, not including the 15% DC and PS.

Let's hope we hit the next one out of the park, so I don't have to work this hard. Unfortunately, I see another 4/8/3/3 sandwich on next year's menu.

 

[Flyarcticcat]

I'm on year 8 pay on the 7ER in NYC. I work a lot, a lot. Green slips in the summer. White slips in the winter. I average $13400/mo gross, not including the 15% DC and PS.

Let's hope we hit the next one out of the park, so I don't have to work this hard. Unfortunately, I see another 4/8/3/3 sandwich on next year's menu.

Thats good info. To compare Im a commuter at SWA 7 yr pay (122 Trip rate and I average 120TFP a month straight pay approx 15K a month gross. The difference is I put 10% a month into my 401K i.e. 1500 a month out of my paycheck. SWA has a long way to go to catch up on retirement dollars and benefits.

 

[zman]

Swa money is in the work rules. I am still trying to understand it as well. We had a 8 year SWA on the jumpseat who averages 16k a month with 16-17 off.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Swa money is in the work rules. I am still trying to understand it as well. We had a 8 year SWA on the jumpseat who averages 16k a month with 16-17 off.

8 year FO PAY is $125.30 per trip
20 day month would average out to 140 tfp w/o per diem and taxes funding your 401K, union dues, parking, uniforms, medical, dental, VEBA, LTD, PMA THEN, that's close to $18K but that's humpin it. I don't see it being 16 to 17 off in a 30, 31 day month unless he's getting union pull and/or scrubbing some or part of his line and playing the OT game which is more lucrative in the summer.

 

[nwaf16dude]

On the poon there are two camps and it would help those of us that are interested in accuracy if you could chime in. Thanks





Then this:

DAL 65 x (263 + 8 + 6.50) = $18,037.50 per month

I don't know what the 8 in this equation is. 65 is the minimum line value (which almost everybody beats--min reserve is 72, average reserve for the year is 75.5), 263 is the 747/777 captain rate, and 6.50 is the international override, but the 8 is a mystery to me. Anyone?

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

 

[Roomwithaview]

Thank you!

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

That's what I'm looking for brother. So that's prior to any pullout whatsoever.

Next question.

Hire date for the JUNIOR 777/747 Cappy.

Thanks for stayin' with me.

RMWAV

 

[General Lee]

DAL 65 x (263 + 8 + 6.50) = $18,037.50 per month

I don't know what the 8 in this equation is. 65 is the minimum line value (which almost everybody beats--min reserve is 72, average reserve for the year is 75.5), 263 is the 747/777 captain rate, and 6.50 is the international override, but the 8 is a mystery to me. Anyone?

If I was going to publish a "normal" monthly gross for a 777/747 Capt, I'd use 75.5 x (263+6.50)=20347.25

You also could add $700 a month for per diem at $2.60 an hour. Those 744 pilots mostly fly 12 day trips (that could translate to 30 straight days off afterward if bid correctly). The 777 pilots usually fly 3-4 day trips (DTW to Asia and back or ATL to DXB or Joberg) or 6-8 day trips (to Asia with turns to SIN from NRT).

I don't know what that "8" is in your equation. You do the hourly plus INTL override ($6.50 per hour for Capt, $4.50 for FO) and then add higher per diem (an extra 50 cents an hour).


The biggest difference between DL and SWA is variety. Airplane types, types of flying (dom vs Intl), and trip lengths (1 day turns all the way to 12 or 13 day trips and everything in between). You can bid and try them all, or stick with one and get senior. Variety or choice is good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[nwaf16dude]

That's what I'm looking for brother. So that's prior to any pullout whatsoever.

Next question.

Hire date for the JUNIOR 777/747 Cappy.

Thanks for stayin' with me.

RMWAV

Junior 777 Capt is from Jan 88, 747 April 85. It's a little skewed by the fences left over from the merger.

Also, important to remember that the 20,347.25 does not include company retirement contributions, so that same captain's total compensation (no per diem included) is actually 20,347.25 x 1.15=23399.33, and he doesn't have to contribute a penny to get that 15%.

The 75.5 hour number is pretty darn conservative. DALPA claims that the average Delta guy is getting paid for 87 hours a month when you factor in vacation and training. If you had asked me last year I would have told you that I thought that number was high, but this year I have easily averaged greater than 90 per month, and have broken 100 a few months. Senior guys that know what they are doing can easily credit way over 100 with our premium pay rules. There's an A330 captain over on APC who claims to be getting paid 217 this month, which is just north of $53,000.

 

[General Lee]

And we all know profit sharing is not guaranteed, but thanks to Consolidation and bag fees, it's becoming more probable. Last year the profit sharing % was 8.25% of the individual's W2 (paid Feb 14th of this year). $20,347.25 per month (a low month on average for the 744 Capt) would mean a 12 month total of $244,167. If you add 8.25% profit sharing to that you'd get an extra $20,143, meaning the new total would be $264,310. (Paid out for this year). But, the current year has also equalled last years total in the profit sharing "pie", with two additional quarters to go. Rumor has it the profit sharing check could equal 15-16% of this year's W2, and if he/she made $244,167 this year, the profit sharing check would equal $36,625 (15%). So, fly the same hours next year and add the 3% raise due Jan 1st, you'd get $251,492 plus the profit sharing on Feb 14th, and those guys would make $288,117, flying a lower than average month. (77 hours on a 12 day 744 trip, then 30 days off until the next 12 day trip at the end of the next month). Not bad..... Beats 5 legs a day to Lubbock.



Bye Bye---General Lee