Delta and college GPA

[acaTerry]

Well those looking to get hired at Delta without a degree.... best of luck..

The non college advocates are arguing the wrong point.... Is it necessary to have a college degree to be a good pilot? Of course not....



Are your chances of getting hired at a reputable legacy carrier with a degree better.. Of course..

What guys like YIP are failing to recognize..... HR departments set the hiring standards.. Not a guy working at JUS in MI....

Don't like the playing field, go find another game....

Yes 99% is a legitimate number from a scientific poll I conducted using ALL FAA commercial pilots licenses from their website.. Just for this thread.. Because that wouldn't be a colossal waste of time.

I don't think that's the argument. I think the beef is with the ones who insist you are a "lower" pilot because of it. I hold my degrees, and I have to say I don't think it makes me deserve a job any more than a more experienced applicant without one. But like you said, pilots don't get to make the decision, HR does.

 

[Gorditas]

In other words, they want boy scouts that were born with a silver spoons in their mouths. I could have been done in four years with great grades if I wasn't working two jobs to put myself through college. If they don't want pilots that pull themselves up by the bootstraps, their loss.

I worked two jobs in college and averaged 18 credit hours a semester to complete two programs in 5 years. I was certainly born without the silver spoon, but was instead given a golden work ethic. Were there kids with a lot easier road to hoe that never worked a day in their life, drove new cars and had a slush fund? Sure there were. This is aviation, it has been and will always be an expensive pursuit. I was able to keep my overall GPA well above 3.0 though, exceeding 3.0 every semester except the first where I had a rude awakening to how much harder I had to work in college.

If you desire to work at Delta, or any major for that matter, your grades won't be nearly as much of a problem as your attitude. Unlike your college grades, that is still something you can work on.

 

[waveflyer]

This I find curious. Why? Other than your SWA koolaid drinking, you seem like an otherwise intelligent individual. Why do you think you "needed" college to do a rather simple job?

No mind is so great that it does not need other minds to sharpen, compare, shape, and bounce ideas off of.

I actually grew in college, and grew up. Learned how to work, and learned to stick with something until I was where I needed to be to get the A. And nut up until I was. That process taught as much as the actual content. Other experiences helped, but again, they were more challenging in college.
Sports being one of them.

"Our democracy depends upon an informed constituency"-Thomas Jefferson
Love learning and you'll find that required info, but Colleges are the best place to be exposed to everything the world has to offer.

For me, at some point early in college, but before I knew what I wanted to do, the world stopped spinning faster than I was. And it set me up for success.

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, Three of the best pilots I've known never went to college. They went right into flying complex multi engine aircraft at a very young age and made it into HA, Piedmont and AA (via AirCal). They were much better pilots than almost all the highly educated one's I've known. I've known pilots that over emphasize the importance of were they went to college too. They weren't so good.
That said, the reality is, having graduated from college is just one more resume builder that I can understand an employer would want to have checked off. But it in no way indicates any superiority or higher level of competence in the cockpit.

I believe I said the same thing-
But they are exceptions, not the rule

In my experience the most rough around the edges types are also uneducated. And it shows. And it's embarrassing at times. Social skills to not shining shoes, to showing up late-

Our jobs are not just flying. Being a good employee and professional is part of it.
I fine tuned that in college.

Besides, college was some of the funnest years of my life...and where I met some of my best friends. To me again, the argument isn't why. It's why not?

 

[waveflyer]

My Dad gave me a very good piece of advice many years ago:

" Son, what do you think the importance of attending college and getting a degree is? "

" Uh...to learn?"

" Besides that."

" Uh...I dunno'."

" Learning is part of it, meeting people from different backgrounds and gaining different perspectives is part of it....But, most importantly it's so you never lose out on a job opportunity because the other guy can check a box that you can't. "


Thanks, Dad.


YKW

Wise man

 

[waveflyer]

Maybe you've been flying too long to know what's the rest of the working world goes through...

He's a short breakdown of just a few members of my family..

Grandfather.. No college.... Factory worker

Grandmother.. No college... Worked at Sibleys, now part of Macy's

Mother... No college...bartender... Went to two year school at the age of 54..
Became LPN

Father... No college... Alcoholic/ drug addict bum dead at the age of 45

Step father... No college... Construction worker

Aunt... No college, odd jobs... After college in late 30's... Executive assistant at a prestigious university

Cousin #1... College, construction management

Cousin #2... College, register nurse

Half sister.... No college, cleans out dog kennels for barely above minimum wage
Her boyfriend, no college... Barely holds jobs as a tire changer

Myself.. Paid my way through college at ERAU ( and 2 other schools) while working full time at restaurants, night clubs etc... 767 FO and small business owner.. ( the guys I hire at just above minimum wage... No college)


Keep telling yourselves that college isn't a major avenue towards a better QOL.

It may not be the only way, but your chances are far greater with college.

Very similar examples in my life.

 

[Whine Lover]

Wise man

It's just that simple isn't it ?

Ever since there have been institutions of higher learning in this country, and ever since there have been employers and employees in this World...The employer has had the right to set qualifications as regards who he/she would like to employ.

One of those desired qualifications is, and has been, a College Education.

I would venture to say that for at least the previous two centuries, a college degree, (of any sort) makes one a better candidate for employment.

And, for the last 100 years...It has been known that, for employment as an airline pilot, it is almost a requirement. ( With many exceptions. )

It's just a box to be checked, it has nothing to do with who and what you are...But, if the employer cares to use that as part of their hiring criteria / filtering process, well....That is their prerogative.

I'm Color Blind. Many airlines would never consider me for employment. It was disqualifying. "Perfect Vision" was a box I couldn't check, through no fault of my own. But, by Christ...if there was a special "Color Blindness" school/procedure/whatever I could have participated in somehow, someway...I would have found a way to do it. ( Luckily, a waiver was good enough for many airlines. Oh, and I made damn sure I could check that box. )

Just that simple:

If you can't check the box ( for whatever reason(s) )... you don't get the job.

Life is just SO unfair....Now, isn't it ? ( Set sarcasm lever to " Max " . )




YKW

 

[pilotyip]

Really? Then why haven't you retired?

why I am doing what I like, hanging around airports, airplanes and pilots. I cannot believe they pay me to do this stuff. Been some great posts here, I am not the only one who sees other alternatives to college to help a person grow up as Wavy did.

BTW Yes I know hiring mangers can set any rules they want, they are just stupid rules.

 

[Whine Lover]

I say we all get together and form an Airline with the following hiring requirements:

- Big Watch / Breitling / Travolta Edition - w / "Gay-Time" Display

- Possession of "David Clark's"

- 3800 sq. ft. House Minimum- For One Person

- 2 Ex-Wives - Minimum

- Truck(s) / Car(s) / Boat (s) / - Size and Cost - Inversely Commensurate to Penile Displacement

- Attitude ( Mostly "Bad" , yet with moments of compassion and reason. )

- 4 year College Degree. Definitely.


I think we would have an outstanding Hiring Pool.....And one K-Azz Airline.

:0


Love,

Whine

 

[PCL_128]

No mind is so great that it does not need other minds to sharpen, compare, shape, and bounce ideas off of.

No argument there. But that's not really the question. The question was about why you think you needed it to be a professional pilot. I know it hurts some feelings, but the reality is that being an airline pilot is not a profession that requires serious academics. Pilots aren't lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. I guess your claim is that college helped you grow up? My question would be this, then: how do you know that other experiences wouldn't have helped you in the same way? They certainly have for many others.

Disclaimer: I'm not anti-college. I'm actually working on finishing a degree in economics. I just think it's a bit ridiculous to require it of someone who wants to be a pilot.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

No argument there. But that's not really the question. The question was about why you think you needed it to be a professional pilot. I know it hurts some feelings, but the reality is that being an airline pilot is not a profession that requires serious academics. Pilots aren't lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. I guess your claim is that college helped you grow up? My question would be this, then: how do you know that other experiences wouldn't have helped you in the same way? They certainly have for many others.

Disclaimer: I'm not anti-college. I'm actually working on finishing a degree in economics. I just think it's a bit ridiculous to require it of someone who wants to be a pilot.

Wow, a pilot, a owner of a company rolling in money, and finishing a degree in economics. You sure as hell spend a ton of wasted time here on FI with such a full plate...More proof you are a BS artist..

 

[Freebrd]

This message is hidden because Mercyful Fate is on your ignore list.

so peaceful

 

[Mercyful Fate]

This message is hidden because Mercyful Fate is on your ignore list.

so peaceful

And just when I thought you could not be any more annoying than before.

 

[PCL_128]

This message is hidden because Mercyful Fate is on your ignore list.

so peaceful

Same here! Ain't it nice?

 

[Scoot 11]

This message is hidden because Mercyful Fate is on your ignore list.

so peaceful

You're not missing anything. Just him/her playing with him (her)self....As usual!

 

[Mercyful Fate]

You're not missing anything. Just him/her playing with him (her)self....As usual!

Hey thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule of self fisting to drop by!

 

[Scoot 11]

Hey thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule of self fisting to drop by!

Your mom was busy "entertaining" the Atlanta Hawks, so I have time, until the next group stops by the "mercyful fate" truck stop!
Tell me, does she still hang that sign from her neck that says, "busses welcome?"

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Your mom was busy "entertaining" the Atlanta Hawks, so I have time, until the next group stops by the "mercyful fate" truck stop!
Tell me, does she still hang that sign from her neck that says, "busses welcome?"

HAHAHAHA, oh going to the mom jokes? Hey, when all else fails, bust out the Jr High level stuff...Great job little buddy!

 

[learflyer]

I consider my biggest accomplishment in college to be my not being brainwashed by 4 yrs of incessant liberal indoctrination and bias. I learned far more useful lessons and obtained better life skills as an enlisted Marine than college ever offered.

Amen! I also plan on "thinking critically" by NOT acquiring 100k in debt. I'm slowly acquiring mine at the equivalent of Bumblebee State slowly, online, my own dime. If Delta doesn't like it then they can shove it.

 

[maru657]

Social skills notwithstanding, here's an example of critical thinking. Brand X has a degree as a requirement. This seemed to totally ignore the requirements for skill and actual experience. How could such a management descision been made? Look at the pilots who are in management positions making these descisions. Now regarding one Atlanta based example, they started, and existed with crop dusters etc. Guys who brought Delta into the jet age with an excellent safety record. They were replaced with double brested suits who managed to make a joke of it during the 80's. But thank god they have degrees.

 

[B190Captain]

Why would airlines want to hire pilots with masters degrees? Seems like overkill unless the pilot wants to slither into a management job down the line.

More like why would anyone with a masters degree be dumb enough to want to be an airline pilot?

 

[sflax]

Not that I am applying to DAL...but does the college matter, if a person goes to a tier 1 school and gets a 2.4 or goes to a tier 2 school and gets a 2.6, do they look at the level of competition that you had?

As for what college teaches you..if you do it per DAL. How to survive with limited love and guidance at an early age, to dedicate to a goal surrounded by more distractions then you will probably ever have to deal with. And to do it with out breaking the law or failing out. I think it shows a lot about a person. Now as for the late bloomers or the people that had to learn the hard way to do it, DAL has the right to ask for X when the pile is to the roof.

 

[pilotyip]

As for what college teaches you..if you do it per DAL. How to survive with limited love and guidance at an early age, to dedicate to a goal surrounded by more distractions then you will probably ever have to deal with. And to do it with out breaking the law or failing out. I think it shows a lot about a person.

Again this shows that you assume that only college can do these things for person. We know that is not true. Plus you don't have to do any of those things to be a college grad with all the pay your fee get your B places. But you get to check the box the same as the Mech Engineer grad from MIT. Yes I know the DAL NR people judge by a the possession ofh et degree, I just happen to think they are too narrow minded to see the bigger picture of who a person is.

BTW: The college degree is destroying this country with the growing student load bubble. WSJ says starter home sales are fall because potential buyers are making student loan payment instead of house payments.

 

[sflax]

I agree, life and experience can and will teach more. But to what standards can that be judged, DAL uses a degree for certain time frame of life. I agree it's not the best judgement or tail of the tape. But until they run low on them, they will keep asking. As for checking a box just to say you have a degree, if you are going to use that then you need to compare the degree to the GPA and the GPA to the tier of the college. Just don't do it to to your wife. Good luck to all.

 

[wms]

Complain all you want, the airline sets the standards. Meet the standards and get called, don't meet the standards and don't even get noticed. Especially now that HR is computerized. Your name doesn't get through the filter even with the best rec. It's not an argument of whether a degree is relevant but that you need it to get hired. The situation will change, but right now it is what it is.

I was going to wait it out but decided to finish school. I was military enlisted also and practical experience is invaluable. But the learning experience in college has improved my judgment and decision making skills in the cockpit. I recommend everyone finish school and beyond as you are able.

Taking classes and studying is time better spent than watching tv, playing games and surfing the web, and then coming up with excuses about why you didn't finish school.
__________________

 

[pilotyip]

Taking classes and studying is time better spent than watching tv, playing games and surfing the web, and then coming up with excuses about why you didn't finish school.
__________________

Now there is something we all agree upon.

 

[jonjuan]

But the learning experience in college has improved my judgment and decision making skills in the cockpit. I recommend everyone finish school and beyond as you are able.


__________________

Yep-I think that is something we can all agree on.

 

[pilotyip]

Yep-I think that is something we can all agree on.

Nope not all of us, I cannot think of anything I learned in college that made me a better pilot. Now Solid Geometry I will admit made me a better Navigator and I wrote the highest test score ever recorded in Navigator school. But as I pilot nope, college had no connection. And to say that the college degree done on-line with 60 credits for life experience at $100 per credit gives you that decision making process in my humble opinion is far fetched.

Now compared to what I learned going through military training on decision making, taking responsibility, and being accountable for your action. Nothing in college even closely compared to that experience. you can coast through college like Michigan State University with very little effort and still get a degree, you cannot do that in a military training program, they will eat you alive. For the first time in my life I discovered I could do a whole lot more successfully that I ever thought I could. My greatest learning experience in my life was my first five years in the Navy where I made PPC.,

 

[PCL_128]

Some of the worst pilots I've ever flown with, who had some of the worst decision making abilities imaginable, were former military. Putting people with a military background up on a pedestal is just as absurd as putting people with a degree up on a pedestal.

 

[learflyer]

The only other line of work where importance of where you went to school, how long it took to graduate (doesn't mean a thing. Life gets in the way sometimes), and whatyour GPA was are at Law firms. Delta is NOT a law firm. Just an airline.