IBT 1108 Executive Board Announcement

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Explain the exact process that makes it binding?

It was signed by our president and each individual employee.

That makes it a written contract.

We have not had a vote since the contracts went in to effect.

We are going to have a pilot representative who will be involved in the voting process.

Kinda sounds like that "seat at the table" you keep telling us we should want.

 

[slowtation capt]

It was signed by our president and each individual employee.

That makes it a written contract.

We have not had a vote since the contracts went in to effect.

We are going to have a pilot representative who will be involved in the voting process.

Kinda sounds like that "seat at the table" you keep telling us we should want.

And if they change something without your vote, what then?

 

[V1 Rotate]

Can you give some examples over the last few years where management made a decision and you all got together and voted to change it.
How is this done?

Did you have a vote before your sick days were taken away or is it still being discussed and when will the vote take place?

We didn't have a voting process until the Pilot Agreement came out. Actually an improvement over what we already had when it came to changes in work rules.

 

[ProFracPilot]

And if they change something without your vote, what then?

They can sue the company for breach of contract.

And I'm sure the company would be happy to fund the legal team required for an employee to defend his or her (individual) contract.

Which begs the question: I wonder if all of those individual contracts read alike? Or maybe there's a little sumthin'-sumthin' in some, but not others?

Maybe they're all posted on yammer for everyone to read [emoji53]

 

[V1 Rotate]

They can sue the company for breach of contract.

And I'm sure the company would be happy to fund the legal team required for an employee to defend his or her (individual) contract.

Which begs the question: I wonder if all of those individual contracts read alike? Or maybe there's a little sumthin'-sumthin' in some, but not others?

Maybe they're all posted on yammer for everyone to read [emoji53]

If Flexjet blatantly breaches our agreement I don't think we'd have a hard time finding a lawyer that would be willing to represent such a sure-fire case.

 

[ProFracPilot]

If Flexjet blatantly breaches our agreement I don't think we'd have a hard time finding a lawyer that would be willing to represent such a sure-fire case.

This is a serious question: Is it ONE agreement, or is it 400+ individual agreements?

 

[jetwash]

We didn't have a voting process until the Pilot Agreement came out. Actually an improvement over what we already had when it came to changes in work rules.

Did the pilots vote for the agreement? If so what percent voted for and how much voted against?
I assume it passed since it is now in effect. When does it come up for renewal?

 

[slowtation capt]

Did the pilots vote for the agreement? If so what percent voted for and how much voted against?
I assume it passed since it is now in effect. When does it come up for renewal?

I don't see a renewal date on it, until the company decides that they want to issue you a new one.

I guess this would be their vote for it; "if another crewmember does not sign a Crewmember Emplyment Agreement their seniority will not be protected which may positively impact your seniority."

Why is it, "Upon upgrade to Captain, the First Officer will enter the Captain pay scale based upon hire date minus one year. Example: 4 year First Officer upgrades to Captain. The First Officer will start the Learjet Captain pay scale at Year 3."?

 

[slowtation capt]

This is a serious question: Is it ONE agreement, or is it 400+ individual agreements?

My guess, there are multiple; "....who have signed a Crewmember Employment Agreement substantially identical to this Agreement and vote on the proposed modification."

 

[Club ORD FO]

It was signed by our president and each individual employee.

Do you really have a signed copy? If so that's the first I've heard of it. I mailed in my signed page but never got anything back.

 

[slowtation capt]

If Flexjet blatantly breaches our agreement I don't think we'd have a hard time finding a lawyer that would be willing to represent such a sure-fire case.

Would you have a hard time paying for it though; "The Company and You will share the payment of the arbitrator's fee equally."

 

[Club ORD FO]

Why is it, "Upon upgrade to Captain, the First Officer will enter the Captain pay scale based upon hire date minus one year. Example: 4 year First Officer upgrades to Captain. The First Officer will start the Learjet Captain pay scale at Year 3."?

That's a carry over from an old thing they did long ago. From what I've been told, in the early day (like, year zero) when you upgraded to captain you started at year 1 captain. Everyone was upgrading fast so that was fine. Then there was a wait for upgrade so they made it current years of service minus 1. It's a silly old thing, don't pay any attention to it. Hopefully they will get rid of it for simplicity sake.

Did the pilots vote for the agreement? If so what percent voted for and how much voted against?
I assume it passed since it is now in effect. When does it come up for renewal?

There was no vote. We were told we could choose to sign or not to sign. I don't know if anybody didn't sign. There is no renewal, its ongoing.

This is a serious question: Is it ONE agreement, or is it 400+ individual agreements?

One agreement for everyone.

 

[ProFracPilot]

My guess, there are multiple; "....who have signed a Crewmember Employment Agreement substantially identical to this Agreement and vote on the proposed modification."

Thanks SC.

You have all signed your very own, individual, employment agreement. They appear to be "substantially identical", but perhaps no two are alike.

Ok.

The folks defending this agreement seem to believe it is a legal and binding contract. And I would probably agree with you.

However, I think it is also safe to assume that if you find the other party to the agreement has failed to uphold any part of the agreement, you are on your own to defend it. There's absolutely nothing collective about it, nor does it have the protections, that a collective agreement has.

Just so long as everyone understands this extremely important difference for the sake of the ongoing debate.

Carry on.

 

[doh]

It says we are at will employees in the agreement.

 

[jetwash]

That's a carry over from an old thing they did long ago. From what I've been told, in the early day (like, year zero) when you upgraded to captain you started at year 1 captain. e.

What about going from year 8 Lear Captain to the Challenger?

Do you go to year 8 CL300 Captain or start at Year 1 CL300 Captain pay?


That was what Kenn did to the Flight Options pilots before the CBA. When you went up to another aircraft you went down to year 1 pay in that aircraft.

They called it " slide to parity" we called it " slide to poverty".
That is another reason that the FO pilots do not want to go back to the way it was before the contract.