Netjets Recalls!!!!

[Semore Butts]

See Squonks "There be good news coming".

It's a vague thread title, but, that's what it's about. No need for 2 threads I guess.

Starting in March, that's all I have for now. Message didn't really say how many, but also hiring Flight attendants as well.

 

[T-1GUY]

In other news, Netjets is firing pilots for taking sick days per their contractual rights.

 

[RPJ]

That's great news!

 

[billybob]

Let the beer flow like wine

 

[CALRepublic]

Awesome news....

Too bad these great news won't stay great for long...I wonder how long before the nay-sayers chime in... No positive news stay positive with those guys around

"We're recalling because everybody is leaving"
" they're firing pilots for X reason so they have to recall"
" we're recalling due to an FAA mandate, but we're still shrinking"

 

[Some guy]

In other news, Netjets is firing pilots for taking sick days per their contractual rights.

That didn't take long for someone to turn this into "the company hates us and everything they do is wrong and aimed at hurting pilots".

 

[gutshotdraw]

Furloughed pilots that wish to return or temporarily bypass recall: Be sure to update your address of record with NJA HR so that your recall letter gets to you. If you don't respond (and they WON'T care why) within 7 calendar days, you will be immediately terminated.

I'd HATE to say somebody who wants to come back get screwed over because of a clerical snafu. Go on record with anybody you can, HR, the union, or whoever in order to protect your desire and rights to return.

The company is notorious for sending stuff to the wrong address...

Meanwhile, no numbers released yet but if they announce say 100 recalls and you're within 200 ish, be ready. My guess is they will get to you.

 

[tk855]

Meanwhile, no numbers released yet but if they announce say 100 recalls and you're within 200 ish, be ready. My guess is they will get to you.

If they announce say 100 recalls and you're within 495 ish be ready.

I fixed it for ya Gut!

Seriously, congratulations to the guys/gals that will accept the recall, it will be great to have you back!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

You may be right....

I just don't know how many will come back. And how many will stay once they get current.

Regardless, it's great news for those that want to come back and good news for our negotiators if they are willing to take advantage of the additional leverage this provides.

 

[jtf]

I doubt they will announce any firm numbers for recall. They will just recall as they believe they need. If the flood gates open wider and wider for those who are leaving, then the recalls will be more and faster, but they are currently into seeing how far the pilots will allow themselves to be pushed. If the masses stop flying broke airplanes and stop flying fatigued (the average is about 1 fatigue call per pilot per year), then the recall will really pick up.

 

[BentOver]

I doubt they will announce any firm numbers for recall. They will just recall as they believe they need. If the flood gates open wider and wider for those who are leaving, then the recalls will be more and faster, but they are currently into seeing how far the pilots will allow themselves to be pushed. If the masses stop flying broke airplanes and stop flying fatigued (the average is about 1 fatigue call per pilot per year), then the recall will really pick up.

Glad you didn't say extended days, we all know they don't help.

 

[CALRepublic]

I doubt they will announce any firm numbers for recall. They will just recall as they believe they need. If the flood gates open wider and wider for those who are leaving, then the recalls will be more and faster, but they are currently into seeing how far the pilots will allow themselves to be pushed. If the masses stop flying broke airplanes and stop flying fatigued (the average is about 1 fatigue call per pilot per year), then the recall will really pick up.

We have "masses" flying broken airplanes???

Not enough fatigue calls

Jesus crist...........

 

[realityman]

Awesome news....

Too bad these great news won't stay great for long...I wonder how long before the nay-sayers chime in... No positive news stay positive with those guys around

"We're recalling because everybody is leaving"
" they're firing pilots for X reason so they have to recall"
" we're recalling due to an FAA mandate, but we're still shrinking"

Well, not trying to be a "naysayer", but your first quote above is EXACTLY the reason the company gave for the recalls when they made the announcement.

As to your second quote, I don't know if it's affecting the recall numbers, but they ARE firing pilots. Whether the firings are legitimate or part of an intimidation campaign is yet to be determined, but preliminary indications are it's the latter.

Haven't heard anything in regards to your third quote.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and congrats to the guys who will be coming back!
But ready yourselves, this is not the company, or union, that you were furloughed from (and not in a good way for either).
Good luck to you!!!

 

[Some guy]

The company doesn't release much when it comes to terminations. The recent one (a few weeks ago) was due to some unethical stuff and not performance or attendance based. I can't and won't get into details, but if anyone here is privy you can just agree.

There may be some others in the pipeline, but from what I know it's those 1%ers that even the majority of you can't stand to be paired with. These are the ones who get cornered in a parking lot by a group of peers telling him knock his crap off and yet continues the antics. These antics by the way cause you to work more and work harder.

Contrary to popular belief, most of us workers know our pilot group is dedicated and work hard and put up with a lot of crap. There is that 1% in every group that creates work for everyone. And many think we we do things to affect quality of life or job...We honestly don't have the time nor the desire to make life difficult. Sure, dumb decisions can be made, but they're made by someone who probably has a dozen others things going on that need attention 10 minutes ago. Come sit in the SOC for a day for a better perspective.

As far as broken airplanes, not sure what you are seeing but you have tools at your disposal to report it. From my point of view when I see some of the stuff I see, I have a hard time believing that broken airplanes are being flown.

Welcome back to those being recalled. I hope it's a large number.

SG

 

[Downwind]

At least the union got in a "oh crap the furloughees are coming back better get in a quick we didn't forget about you email an hour before that company announced recalls" letter. Because that just would have been awkward.

 

[PoorGuy]

At least the union got in a "oh crap the furloughees are coming back better get in a quick we didn't forget about you email an hour before that company announced recalls" letter. Because that just would have been awkward.

Coincidence? Probably not....
They probably thought, "oh s***t, these furloughed guys we've been ignoring will be able to vote soon!"

 

[jtf]

I heard differently from more than one person about the pilot who got fired- as in he was NOT a repeat offender. I never flew with him so I can't say from personal observations if he was abusing the system or not. All I know for sure is that there were multiple reasons listed by the company for his dismissal and that the sick/ well part of it is a contractually protected activity that would be impossible to prove abuse without a direct admission. I believe there will be many more fired in the near term with or without reasonable cause. I doubt the numbers fired though will do much for recalls.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

Coincidence? Probably not....
They probably thought, "oh s***t, these furloughed guys we've been ignoring will be able to vote soon!"

I can guarantee they did not think that. Pick your number, 100?, 200? called back and figure the percent that accept. 50? 100? Political advisers will say a voting block of 50-100 (Even if you can get them all to vote the same way) is a small percentage and does not generate fear.

The leadership does what is in the best interest of the pilot group based on surveys and recommendations from the legal staff and not what the frequent typers say here or any other message board. Additionally, don't let them follow the "We know what is best" mantra without heading the will of the entire pilot group like some have tried to do.

Think you can do better then once recalled run for office. Good luck if you win - the job is probably not what you think it is.

It is far more likely the Company was going to recall and timed it to undercut the 4 years message from the union that has probably been in the works for some time.

 

[CALRepublic]

Again, We have managed to turn these positive news into a big pile of steaming s**t... I knew it wouldn't take long

 

[realityman]

Again, We have managed to turn these positive news into a big pile of steaming s**t... I knew it wouldn't take long

What are you talking about?

I haven't seen anyone here say it's a bad thing to see recalls, or that they feel bad for the people being recalled.

But burying your head in the sand isn't going to do anyone any good either. If you work at Netjets, did you even bother to read the announcement from management past "We're going to be recalling pilots."? If so, did you note the REASON they gave for the recalls?

Are you bothering to follow what's going on with the recent terminations? If you are, and are cognizant of all the other games the company has been playing recently, do you think the recalled are coming back to the same place they left?

Have you been following our union's actions recently (or perhaps more appropriately, their lack of action on anything)? If so, do you think the recalled are coming back to the same union they left?

Yeah, I think we're all happy that some furloughed folks will be coming back! I'm personally thrilled! Again, congrats to those who get the call and wish to return!

But it's far from all sunshine and rainbows. We have major problems right now in most areas, and while the recalled are coming back to a job, a paycheck, medical insurance, and a 401K, things aren't so wonderful and they could very easily be fired (no more recall rights) for some bogus reason.

Sorry for the reality check.

 

[RPJ]

Realityman, so do you no longer feel that NJA is a career destination?

 

[realityman]

Realityman, so do you no longer feel that NJA is a career destination?

No.

I'm 44. My seniority is in the mid-100's. And I am preparing to send out some apps.

In truth, even if I get an interview, or a job offer, somewhere else, it won't be an easy decision. I have a young family and all the usual bills. Starting over, even at a legacy, would be very difficult. After all, NJA isn't a total crap job yet, but it appears to be heading that way. Looking beyond the immediate "What kind of job is it right now?", I prefer a longer range view of "What kind of job is it going to be in 5, 10, and 15 years?". The trends don't look good, so even with difficulty of starting over it may be worth it, depending on the carrier.

Most probably, due to my age and current lifestyle, I'm probably stuck here. And it's possible we can turn NJA back into a great job. I'm ready to fight! But during the fight it's really going to suck here.

So, I don't believe that NJA is a career job, but it's possible it could change.

I say congrats to the recalled! Come back, get a shiny new type rating or at least get current, and find yourselves a better job while flying here. Good luck to you!

 

[av8trinabarrel]

No.

I'm 44. My seniority is in the mid-100's. And I am preparing to send out some apps.

In truth, even if I get an interview, or a job offer, somewhere else, it won't be an easy decision. I have a young family and all the usual bills. Starting over, even at a legacy, would be very difficult. After all, NJA isn't a total crap job yet, but it appears to be heading that way. Looking beyond the immediate "What kind of job is it right now?", I prefer a longer range view of "What kind of job is it going to be in 5, 10, and 15 years?". The trends don't look good, so even with difficulty of starting over it may be worth it, depending on the carrier.

Most probably, due to my age and current lifestyle, I'm probably stuck here. And it's possible we can turn NJA back into a great job. I'm ready to fight! But during the fight it's really going to suck here.

So, I don't believe that NJA is a career job, but it's possible it could change.

I say congrats to the recalled! Come back, get a shiny new type rating or at least get current, and find yourselves a better job while flying here. Good luck to you!

It wasn't that long before the furlough that I was approached by MANY United FO's asking how they could get on with NETJETS. UAL was going down the toilet rapidly and they wanted out. Point being, the only certainty with aviation is change. Things could get worse or they could get better. Giving up your seniority that high up the list would take some serious stones.

Stepping back and getting away from aviation for the last 4 years has given me a pretty decent perspective on life. I bitched and complained about the regional life until I got out. I thought flying a 747 around the world would be what I wanted.....NOPE. I got to Net Jets and immediately loved that kind of flying. Sitting out of aviation for this long has given me a new appreciation for flying. I know NetJets isn't what it was, but your making 150kish/yr not having to commute to work. You have probably worked at NJ most of your career to be that high up and so young. Life isn't always greener on the other side!!! I would love to show you the scars on my hands from the last 4 years of plumbing. Like you, I make good money, but I'm burned out and ready to put it in my rear view mirror. Not busting your chops, but just hoping you don't make a mistake you might regret.

Can't wait to get back and help make NJ a career gig again!!

Cheers

 

[RPJ]

Great post

 

[Wankel7]

No.

I'm 44. My seniority is in the mid-100's. And I am preparing to send out some apps.

In truth, even if I get an interview, or a job offer, somewhere else, it won't be an easy decision. I have a young family and all the usual bills. Starting over, even at a legacy, would be very difficult. After all, NJA isn't a total crap job yet, but it appears to be heading that way. Looking beyond the immediate "What kind of job is it right now?", I prefer a longer range view of "What kind of job is it going to be in 5, 10, and 15 years?". The trends don't look good, so even with difficulty of starting over it may be worth it, depending on the carrier.

Most probably, due to my age and current lifestyle, I'm probably stuck here. And it's possible we can turn NJA back into a great job. I'm ready to fight! But during the fight it's really going to suck here.

So, I don't believe that NJA is a career job, but it's possible it could change.

I say congrats to the recalled! Come back, get a shiny new type rating or at least get current, and find yourselves a better job while flying here. Good luck to you!

I couldn't imagine you would want to leave with a sub 200 seniority number! I couldn't imagine having five 21 day paid vacations ! I would hold on to that and never let go.

 

[Pervis]

I couldn't imagine you would want to leave with a sub 200 seniority number! I couldn't imagine having five 21 day paid vacations ! I would hold on to that and never let go.

We don't get 5 vacation periods, but I would agree with the rest.

 

[realityman]

It wasn't that long before the furlough that I was approached by MANY United FO's asking how they could get on with NETJETS. UAL was going down the toilet rapidly and they wanted out. Point being, the only certainty with aviation is change. Things could get worse or they could get better. Giving up your seniority that high up the list would take some serious stones.

Stepping back and getting away from aviation for the last 4 years has given me a pretty decent perspective on life. I bitched and complained about the regional life until I got out. I thought flying a 747 around the world would be what I wanted.....NOPE. I got to Net Jets and immediately loved that kind of flying. Sitting out of aviation for this long has given me a new appreciation for flying. I know NetJets isn't what it was, but your making 150kish/yr not having to commute to work. You have probably worked at NJ most of your career to be that high up and so young. Life isn't always greener on the other side!!! I would love to show you the scars on my hands from the last 4 years of plumbing. Like you, I make good money, but I'm burned out and ready to put it in my rear view mirror. Not busting your chops, but just hoping you don't make a mistake you might regret.

Can't wait to get back and help make NJ a career gig again!!

Cheers

I agree with every single thing you wrote. And I have given a lot of thought to all of it in the past few months.

The most profound part of what you wrote centers around the uncertainty in this industry. The grass isn't always greener. Or, sometimes it is, but doesn't remain that way.

Again, I try to look a little into the future. I'm just not certain Netjets has a future. A great seniority number at a company that's out of business doesn't help me or my family much.

I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. But the future here has become cloudy enough that it wouldn't be smart to fail to at least consider alternatives. Starting over now would be hard. Starting over in 7 or 8 years will be ridiculously hard.

This job could be great. It will take a strongly motivated and unified pilot force and union leadership to make it so. For now, I've seen neither. With our current union leadership it is NEVER going to happen. And in conjunction with all of that it will require a company CEO with vision passion for this company. Sadly, that's also missing from the current equation. Then there's Buffet. In his 80's and despite what some think, probably not giving too much thought about Netjets these days. And when he's gone, whoever his replacement is may care even less about us. That's a whole heaping pile of uncertainty at this point!

Management, both company and union, comes and goes pretty regularly. Yes, things will change. I have not decided to leave. But I have decided that I need to create more options for myself than I previously had.

Again, incredibly happy to see some furloughed folks return! Welcome back! But if I was younger and having been put through what you've already been through, I'd take this as an opportunity to look for better employment while bringing in a paycheck. Netjets may be (on paper) making boatloads of money right now, but trends are pointing strongly in a negative direction for this company in the future. All this money we're supposedly making and we're still shrinking? Hmmmmm...........

Welcome back! Good luck! And you'll see exactly what I'm talking about when you get out on the road. I for one will not be saying anything to anyone while paired with them to bring them down. I prefer more positive vibes on my tours. But I ask that everyone who comes back simply keep your eyes and ears open. See what's going on. Listen to our clients. Especially management's actions vs. words. It's very enlightening! And worrisome.

 

[realityman]

I couldn't imagine you would want to leave with a sub 200 seniority number! I couldn't imagine having five 21 day paid vacations ! I would hold on to that and never let go.

It's 4 vacation periods. And each is 7 days.

Good vacation to be sure!

But there's a much bigger picture to look at.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

I agree with every single thing you wrote. And I have given a lot of thought to all of it in the past few months.

The most profound part of what you wrote centers around the uncertainty in this industry. The grass isn't always greener. Or, sometimes it is, but doesn't remain that way.

Again, I try to look a little into the future. I'm just not certain Netjets has a future. A great seniority number at a company that's out of business doesn't help me or my family much.

I don't believe it's all doom and gloom. But the future here has become cloudy enough that it wouldn't be smart to fail to at least consider alternatives. Starting over now would be hard. Starting over in 7 or 8 years will be ridiculously hard.

This job could be great. It will take a strongly motivated and unified pilot force and union leadership to make it so. For now, I've seen neither. With our current union leadership it is NEVER going to happen. And in conjunction with all of that it will require a company CEO with vision passion for this company. Sadly, that's also missing from the current equation. Then there's Buffet. In his 80's and despite what some think, probably not giving too much thought about Netjets these days. And when he's gone, whoever his replacement is may care even less about us. That's a whole heaping pile of uncertainty at this point!

Management, both company and union, comes and goes pretty regularly. Yes, things will change. I have not decided to leave. But I have decided that I need to create more options for myself than I previously had.

Again, incredibly happy to see some furloughed folks return! Welcome back! But if I was younger and having been put through what you've already been through, I'd take this as an opportunity to look for better employment while bringing in a paycheck. Netjets may be (on paper) making boatloads of money right now, but trends are pointing strongly in a negative direction for this company in the future. All this money we're supposedly making and we're still shrinking? Hmmmmm...........

Welcome back! Good luck! And you'll see exactly what I'm talking about when you get out on the road. I for one will not be saying anything to anyone while paired with them to bring them down. I prefer more positive vibes on my tours. But I ask that everyone who comes back simply keep your eyes and ears open. See what's going on. Listen to our clients. Especially management's actions vs. words. It's very enlightening! And worrisome.

Very smart decision on your part to keep all options open. I realized after the furlough, that I needed to find something away from this revolving circus. Having timed the hiring cycles poorly, I figured I needed to find something else for when the next furlough comes. After 4 long years, I am finally qualified and ready to go get my contractors license here in CA. I'm finishing a masters as well, so I've been so ridiculously busy I'm ready to come back to NetJets and take a break!!!;-)

 

[BentOver]

I agree with Buffets concern or lack of for NJA.... For his empire it is a very very small portion, and after the DS incident, probably just a huge pain in the rear... While the pilots deserve more $$ and QOL, I'm afraid that the methods usually used to get there (labor unrest etc) may just be the type of tipping point for Buffet or his successor to just rid themselves of the whole thing..

Unlike airlines, which are nearly an essential part of the US economy, and somewhat a necessity to a degree. NJA could vanish tomorrow and really no one beyond some pilots/ vendors and some rich people would notice.... You'd be suprised at how many guys I fly with have never heard of NJA or know basically nothing about them.

That would be my biggest fear with NJA going forward, even if I were a sub 200 seniority guy.... Chance of furlough is nil, but chance of the company dissolving, being parted out, or changing hands to a smaller owner with less deep pockets is a bit greater... 10-20-30 years in this industry is an eternity, chances are withing most of our career spans, NJA will have a drastic change for the better or worse, more than once over the next few decades.