Why not back to the table?

[SoberIrishman]

Why can the two sides not go back to the table right away after the vote, assuming the result is no?
Why would it have to take 3+ years?
Someone please enlighten me.

 

[JustaNumber]

My thoughts exactly. You would think the company would rather immediately consider a contract that was perhaps half as "concessionary", as opposed to continuing the "high cost" current contract. To not do so would be doing a disservice to the stockholders.

Therefore, any talk of parking us for x years, while the company withers away, should be seen as nothing more than bullying and intimidation.

 

[Clutch]

If it's a resounding no, I wouldn't be surprised if Inc walks away from this merger altogether.

 

[Freebrd]

vote NO and keep current book, who cares when they resume

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Why can the two sides not go back to the table right away after the vote, assuming the result is no?
Why would it have to take 3+ years?
Someone please enlighten me.

You are correct. The pilots who vote yes for this TA are the same guys who pay the full sticker price when they buy a new car at the dealership. They can't stomach a little discomfort. They are weak. They want others to do the work for them.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

We need to tell the company what we want in this contract (within reason), instead of the company dictating what they want to us. A minimally acceptable starting point is current book. If you accept less, you are a donkey. Donkeys will work for very little. Sometimes they are stubborn, but if you push them around a little, they get back to work. Brad, Charlie, and the entire supporting executive cast are masterful managers. I actually like them. I admire their skill in duping thousands of pilots into giving-up their compensation and work rules. What I hate are some of my anemic co-workers who roll over like spineless dimwits.

 

[Clutch]

Why does everyone think this TA has so many changes to the hotel languag? Other than 15 hours is now a long overnight, there isn't anything different. The association has a the same amount of say.

 

[twott driver]

No duty rigs is a dangerous game to play with these new rest rules in place. Picture a 12 hour day with two airport sits of 4:59 between each of your 3 one hour legs.

Think they won't do it? We should have learnt from the previous couple of contracts, that we need to imagine the worst possible way they can abuse the contract, and then they'll find something a little worse than that.

Enjoy your 48 hours of duty on your 4 day, and your 16 hours of pay.

Bring back the rigs, or make min day 5 hrs.

Why does a day of vacation not pay min day credit?
Why do reserves get docked 4 hours of sick time for a reserve day they call out for? Why is it not min day?

They are expecting us to take a pay freeze for the next 5 years plus however long it takes to negotiate the new contract. Inflation is only going one way with the amount of money the fed is injecting into the economy. In 8 years time your take home pay in real terms is going to be in the region (conservatively) of 16% less than it is today.... probably significantly less than that. Where have we seen any commitment from management to freeze their pay at current levels for the next 8 years? Oh, we haven''t. Instead they are giving themselves huge raises every year.

Send this TA back to them with a resounding NO, please.

 

[Dannone]

The writing is on the wall they are just going to let us shrink into nothing no matter what the vote is. As agreements expire they will just bid on new flying with SkyWest. According to the union reps mainline partners will not award any new flying to us. Without any scope protection the TA means nothing. If we were going to go back and negotiate anything it should be that. We get the same proportion of replacement aircraft as we have now or combine all 3 lists. Shorten agreement to 3 years and I would vote for it and we can go back to table when things are more in our favor. We have to find a way to control the whipsaw so we can gain some sort of leverage.

 

[twott driver]

I think the reality is we are shrinking regardless of what our contract looks like, if for no other reason than they will not be able to replace all the people that will be leaving.

And really, until they decide to combine us with Skywest and get rid of all the redundancies in management and scheduling and all other departments, then they really aren't that serious about reducing costs. FUPM

 

[Mickey Mouse]

No duty rigs is a dangerous game to play with these new rest rules in place. Picture a 12 hour day with two airport sits of 4:59 between each of your 3 one hour legs.

Think they won't do it? We should have learnt from the previous couple of contracts, that we need to imagine the worst possible way they can abuse the contract, and then they'll find something a little worse than that.

Enjoy your 48 hours of duty on your 4 day, and your 16 hours of pay.

Bring back the rigs, or make min day 5 hrs.

Why does a day of vacation not pay min day credit?
Why do reserves get docked 4 hours of sick time for a reserve day they call out for? Why is it not min day?

They are expecting us to take a pay freeze for the next 5 years plus however long it takes to negotiate the new contract. Inflation is only going one way with the amount of money the fed is injecting into the economy. In 8 years time your take home pay in real terms is going to be in the region (conservatively) of 16% less than it is today.... probably significantly less than that. Where have we seen any commitment from management to freeze their pay at current levels for the next 8 years? Oh, we haven''t. Instead they are giving themselves huge raises every year.

Send this TA back to them with a resounding NO, please.

Bingo

 

[J bar]

I agree

 

[Fishpaw]

I've met only one yes voter (who was open about it) at L-Xjt. He's a smart guy but seems to take the company and union at their word when many of us don't. Hopefully most of us realize we have more leverage now than ever before.

Why all the rush to vote in a contract after 3 yrs of negotiations? They put this out during the holidays and when everyone is concerned about their Jan schedules for a reason. Hoping most of us are just preoccupied enough to not vote.

 

[JustaNumber]

No duty rigs is a dangerous game to play with these new rest rules in place. Picture a 12 hour day with two airport sits of 4:59 between each of your 3 one hour legs.

Think they won't do it? We should have learnt from the previous couple of contracts, that we need to imagine the worst possible way they can abuse the contract, and then they'll find something a little worse than that.

Enjoy your 48 hours of duty on your 4 day, and your 16 hours of pay.

Bring back the rigs, or make min day 5 hrs.

Why does a day of vacation not pay min day credit?
Why do reserves get docked 4 hours of sick time for a reserve day they call out for? Why is it not min day?

They are expecting us to take a pay freeze for the next 5 years plus however long it takes to negotiate the new contract. Inflation is only going one way with the amount of money the fed is injecting into the economy. In 8 years time your take home pay in real terms is going to be in the region (conservatively) of 16% less than it is today.... probably significantly less than that. Where have we seen any commitment from management to freeze their pay at current levels for the next 8 years? Oh, we haven''t. Instead they are giving themselves huge raises every year.

Send this TA back to them with a resounding NO, please.

Excellent points. In fact, without rigs I can see them intentionally (not just randomly) setting up maximum airport appreciation time, as this gives them additional "ready reserve" coverage.

I'm all for being fair and reasonable--I don't need an increase in min day, as I didn't really earn the extra if I just do one leg home in the morning. But duty rigs are completely fair and reasonable, as they prevent the company from retaining us on their property for the potential use of our services without pay. And if the company is smart, they cost the company NOTHING. Rig loss alone is reason to vote NO.

 

[twott driver]

EVERY SINGLE pilot, reserve or otherwise, becomes a ready reserve by default. Add in the little gem of being able to be notified by the janitor of an assignement, and suddenly this thing takes on a life of its own.

And all the while you're making a whopping $1.65/hour.

And on that subject, why is it they think my food and sustenance on a trip costs less than a Delta pilot's (or any of a number of other airlines? Do I pay less than them for a coffee or a sandwhich? I think not.

Extend the inflation game to your per diem. 5 years ago an entree and salad with a drink at Natures Bistro on E cost $8.50. That same meal now will cost you about $11. That's a 30% increase, or 6% per year.

What do you think your per diem will buy you by the time we negotiate a new contract, even 5 years from now?

What do you think your take home pay will buy you at the grocery store, even 5 years from now........ A LOT less than it does now. That I can promise you.

The longevity pay increases are for you to get ahead, not to keep up with inflation....and certainly not so you don't fall quite as far behind

 

[RJLoser]

When does the vote close?

 

[SoberIrishman]

January 14th at 10am.
Result should be known by next day.

 

[Clutch]

EVERY SINGLE pilot, reserve or otherwise, becomes a ready reserve by default. Add in the little gem of being able to be notified by the janitor of an assignement, and suddenly this thing takes on a life of its own.

And all the while you're making a whopping $1.65/hour.

And on that subject, why is it they think my food and sustenance on a trip costs less than a Delta pilot's (or any of a number of other airlines? Do I pay less than them for a coffee or a sandwhich? I think not.

Extend the inflation game to your per diem. 5 years ago an entree and salad with a drink at Natures Bistro on E cost $8.50. That same meal now will cost you about $11. That's a 30% increase, or 6% per year.

What do you think your per diem will buy you by the time we negotiate a new contract, even 5 years from now?

What do you think your take home pay will buy you at the grocery store, even 5 years from now........ A LOT less than it does now. That I can promise you.

The longevity pay increases are for you to get ahead, not to keep up with inflation....and certainly not so you don't fall quite as far behind

Let me ask you this, what happens to you if you get reassigned now? Do you just go to your house?

 

[twott driver]

That's not the point. No duty rigs allows the company to create long airport sits with no financial liability, and in effect place a line holder on ready reserve. Which is fine with me if I'm getting paid 1 hour for every 2 hours if duty. Not so much fun if all you're getting g for the time sitting is $1.65

 

[Clutch]

My point is who cares how they notify you. If they change your schedule, you aren't just gonna drive to your house because they never got a hold of you. This excludes extensions of course.