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Anyone been to an XJT roadshow yet?

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JustaNumber

JustaNumber

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Posts
922
Just wondering if anyone has been to one yet, with any reports. How are they trying to sell this thing? Do they claim some kind of inside info that we're getting wound down if/when we say no?
 
Same stuff from the emails. "State of the industry, blah, blah, blah"

"Vote no and NMB will park us for 3 years". They claim they're not selling it but it's just the best they could do.. Of course, none of them but one really has any negotiating experience so they lost before they even showed up to fight Ford and Harrison.

They looked so deflated up there. Ed got his ass handed to him and the ERJ jnc guys are complete pricks
 
Did they say why parking us for three years would be a bad thing? As in, they have some inside info that that will mean the end of XJT?

Because that's what this thing boils down to.
 
JustaNumber said:
Did they say why parking us for three years would be a bad thing? As in, they have some inside info that that will mean the end of XJT?

Because that's what this thing boils down to.
Click to expand...

They showed a bunch of fancy graphs detailing the aircraft losses by each year. 2016 is where both sides start losing a lot of planes.
 
Clutch said:
They showed a bunch of fancy graphs detailing the aircraft losses by each year. 2016 is where both sides start losing a lot of planes.
Click to expand...

My questions then becomes: won't attrition exceed the loss of airplanes? And, given the expected movement,....isn't it better for all pilots if regionals shrink?
 
slick1 said:
My questions then becomes: won't attrition exceed the loss of airplanes? And, given the expected movement,....isn't it better for all pilots if regionals shrink?
Click to expand...

Not all. Not anyone on the JNC. Not the company. Not the lifers. Not brad. But you and me? Yeah.

I think their argument would be, and was per one if the erj jnc dicks, is that if expressjet doesn't fly it Gojets will.
 
slick1 said:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but isn't being parked for 3 years BETTER than concessions?
Click to expand...

At least Inc. will know what our costs will be. No excuse not to bid on some of that fancy new flyin'!

C'mon Brad, go get 'em!
 
The five year term is what really bothers me. I might be ok with two years but definitely not five. When you add in the next negotiations, we could easily be locked into this thing for 10 years.

Things are changing too fast for us to make that kind of commitment.
 
jetstream said:
The five year term is what really bothers me. I might be ok with two years but definitely not five. When you add in the next negotiations, we could easily be locked into this thing for 10 years.

Things are changing too fast for us to make that kind of commitment.
Click to expand...

Our negotiators were in WAY over their heads. We all thought Ed "the head" would fight but he bought all the BS from the company and F&H.

Their argument against anything less that 5 years is the industry will get worse or "they just don't know" where the industry will be.

In summation, they took the easiest way out of negotiating, which to them had become a war of attrition that F&H won.
 
F&H Solutions Group?s expert management consultants are highly trained to address sensitive and sometimes difficult human resources matters.
Our seasoned labor relations consultants advise clients on the complex workforce issues of today?s competitive business environment. All members of our team have corporate backgrounds and outstanding business acumen; many also have additional experience in the nonprofit and public sectors. All are committed to crafting solutions that work for your organization.

http://www.fhsolutionsgroup.com/consultants
 
David Pincus is the Director of Labor Relations Research for F&H Solutions Group.
Dave assists and advises clients in different industries on their labor relations and personnel policies, with a primary focus on contract analysis and interpretation. In particular, he performs labor relations-related services for the management of numerous major, national, regional, charter, cargo and international airlines.
Dave reviews and analyzes hundreds of collective bargaining agreements to prepare comparative studies and advise clients on the competitiveness of contract proposal terms. He also analyzes market characteristics to identify a client?s comparable competitors. In addition, he prepares customized graphics and reports for negotiations, arbitrations, presentations, internal meetings and legal proceedings.
He costs out union and management contract proposals and conducts comparative studies of other companies? labor agreements, focusing on pay, work rules and benefit plans. Moreover, he determines the cost advantages and disadvantages of using provisions of a competitor?s collective bargaining agreement in place of a client?s current collective bargaining agreement or policies. Dave also serves as an expert witness on labor relations and collective bargaining agreement matters.
 
Mickey Mouse said:
David Pincus is the Director of Labor Relations Research for F&H Solutions Group.
Dave assists and advises clients in different industries on their labor relations and personnel policies, with a primary focus on contract analysis and interpretation. In particular, he performs labor relations-related services for the management of numerous major, national, regional, charter, cargo and international airlines.
Dave reviews and analyzes hundreds of collective bargaining agreements to prepare comparative studies and advise clients on the competitiveness of contract proposal terms. He also analyzes market characteristics to identify a client?s comparable competitors. In addition, he prepares customized graphics and reports for negotiations, arbitrations, presentations, internal meetings and legal proceedings.
He costs out union and management contract proposals and conducts comparative studies of other companies? labor agreements, focusing on pay, work rules and benefit plans. Moreover, he determines the cost advantages and disadvantages of using provisions of a competitor?s collective bargaining agreement in place of a client?s current collective bargaining agreement or policies. Dave also serves as an expert witness on labor relations and collective bargaining agreement matters.
Click to expand...

Versus Ed Fortaw and Dan Utley.

Dan and Ed have been flying regional aircraft for 20 plus years. They have been in the regional industry their entire careers and captains and line holders nearly all of that time. Because of impeccable positioning and just plain ole fking luck, Dan and Ed have never worried about their QOL or job retention. When Dan and Ed aren't flying RJ's, they're busy studying negotiating tactics on wikipedia.
 
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jetstream said:
The five year term is what really bothers me.

Things are changing too fast for us to make that kind of commitment.
Click to expand...

Bingo! And lousy 1 1/2 % raise every 18 months, and no raise on the big RJs unless we get more? WTF does that have to do with it! Hope someone at the Brad & Charly Show asked about why is a 60%+ raise (to 1.3 mil) ok for him but not even peanuts for us lowly pilots. :angryfire
 
Clutch said:
Versus Ed Fortaw and Dan Utley.

Dan and Ed have been flying regional aircraft for 20 plus years. They have been in the regional industry their entire careers and captains and line holders nearly all of that time. Because of impeccable positioning and just plain ole fking luck, Dan and Ed have never worried about their QOL or job retention. When Dan and Ed aren't flying RJ's, they're busy studying negotiating tactics on wikipedia.
Click to expand...

Utley just a union leach for the bucks, Ed I'm greatly disappointed in but then again, Newie is the biggest problem. TERM LIMITS!
 
Freebrd said:
Utley just a union leach for the bucks, Ed I'm greatly disappointed in but then again, Newie is the biggest problem. TERM LIMITS!
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How are you disappointed in someone who has nothing but giving FO's sht listed as negotiating experience?

The deer in headlights glare was simply worth going to the road show when Ed was raked for the obvious leniency towards nap duty rigs. He actually pretended that he never considered that it would affect him personally.
 
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Clutch said:
How are you disappointed in someone who has nothing but giving FO's sht listed as negotiating experience?

The deer in headlights glare was simply worth going to the road show when Ed was raked for the obvious leniency towards nap duty rigs. He actually pretended that he never considered that it would affect him personally.
Click to expand...

Clutch, your candid and honest transcription of these events is sincerely appreciated. Many of us honestly do not have an opportunity to attend these events or interpret the inner workings of our MEC; due to scheduling, family, or proximity constraints.
 
Mickey Mouse said:
Clutch, your candid and honest transcription of these events is sincerely appreciated. Many of us honestly do not have an opportunity to attend these events or interpret the inner workings of our MEC; due to scheduling, family, or proximity constraints.
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Hey, I'll be honest. I'm a sence fitter, if you get me. But, once I sat in on that roadshow the defensiveness and unsoundness in the negotiators voices proved to me that they got blown out of the fkin water and must've obtained some sort of stockholm syndrome during the negotiation process. It helped see that they are in way over their heads. The company could have done better.

And you're welcome Chris Mank. You d*********o****u****che
 
Clutch said:
Hey, I'll be honest. I'm a sence fitter, if you get me. But, once I sat in on that roadshow the defensiveness and unsoundness in the negotiators voices proved to me that they got blown out of the fkin water and must've obtained some sort of stockholm syndrome during the negotiation process. It helped see that they are in way over their heads. The company could have done better.

And you're welcome Chris Mank. You d*********o****u****che
Click to expand...

Clutch, just curios who do you see as being the next group to make up the MEC?

I wasn't thrilled with what I heard yesterday either!

I was a lifer but not any more. My logbook is almost up to date!
 
Clutch said:
How are you disappointed in someone who has nothing but giving FO's sht listed as negotiating experience?

The deer in headlights glare was simply worth going to the road show when Ed was raked for the obvious leniency towards nap duty rigs. He actually pretended that he never considered that it would affect him personally.
Click to expand...

Well of course......Ed flies naps.....This whole thing is simple....Just vote NO!!!!
 
Clutch said:
Says who? The reps? Go back and look at your may 2012 nexus jnc update and see how much was completed at that time. I don't believe the reps
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I agree....anyway this whole contract is a joke...it has more holes than a block of swiss cheese.
 
Clutch said:
Not all. Not anyone on the JNC. Not the company. Not the lifers. Not brad. But you and me? Yeah.

I think their argument would be, and was per one if the erj jnc dicks, is that if expressjet doesn't fly it Gojets will.
Click to expand...


Gojets does not, and will not, have the staffing to fly all of those routes.
 
skyman50 said:
maybe this whole thing is a setup......Maybe the Union wants it voted down
Click to expand...

No. ED doesn't work that way. His ego would not allow that sort of philosophy. The ERJ reps were more condescending than management, so you know they are backing this pos...They all think this is as good as it gets, brah
 

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