Hey Falcon 10 Guys

[100-1/2]

Late Model FA10 TFE731 with 2C Engines

Have a client that likes the plane size and speed over lears.

Sea-Level 3700' grooved runway with no obstructions.

Pilot Pucker factor/Pax Comfort level for 2 Pax very light
luggage on 1hr legs +NBAA Reserve Fuel??? Have other
semi-inconvenient airport options available. Weighing #'s
and doing everything I can to stay out of C-low-tations.

Wise guys keep your comments and judgmental throne-
theory to yourself.

looking for honest first-hand experience only.
thanks in advance.

100-1/2

 

[Shag McNasty]

Sounds like he should wait until he has enough money to buy a jet that's not obsolete.

 

[Denizen]

Sounds like he should wait until he has enough money to buy a jet that's not obsolete.

Well to be fair, he did say late model. So it could be from 1989. That is only what 24 years old? Should be easy to find parts. I am sure it is a great deal.These older jets are very economical to purchase and maintain. A real bargain. Only a fool would purchase something built in the 21st century.












/sarcasm

 

[MaxTorque]

Yikes!
Thanks for the support dudes.

No wonder this forum is on the way out.

 

[LJ45]

lear 31a

 

[ultrarunner]

Check your PM 100

 

[100-1/2]

Thanks Ultra.

"Wise guys keep your comments and judgmental throne-
theory to yourself." ???

/Sounds like he should wait until he has enough money to buy a jet that's not obsolete./

You mean like a Citation 10/xls??? I recently heard one of you rusty old guys btch to ATC when denied FL410. "Got a Falcon 10, over-taking you by 50 knots in about 10 minutes." said the controller who laughed uncontrollably over the air when the old guy spouted off "How about a climb to FL430 in 10 minutes or less?" "He really poured it on then; Sir, you just got to 370. Don't you need like 30 minutes or something, to accelerate for that kind of climb? Its on request."

"obsolete"?? pretty sure that is your sphincter muscles running overtime on a fool's uncontrollable outburst? I have 11 cars of varying ages between 10 and 50 years old. I have spent half as much money (and found parts no problem) on my cars that are 2x as old (and had them 2x longer). I have owned 6 aircraft from 35 to 10 years old of similar cabin class/performance and had the newer aircraft eat me alive by a 30% greater margin than the older aircraft BEFORE CONSIDERATION OF ACQUISITION COSTS.


"/sarcasm"? isn't it time you moved out of your mom's basement? or are you still paying on that loan for the giant 6lb watch you "bought" yourself for making SAAB Captain at Silver Airways or whatever they call themselves this year?

1 out of 4 viable responses plus an affirmation of the disappointment potential knew I was engaging. Not bad? Almost a direct sampling of the population that say Obama is a worthy and effective leader???

Thanks for the entertainment. Your mothers should be proud of the aeronautical savants inhabiting their dojos.

100-1/2

 

[CUBMAN]

100 1/2 you are quite correct with your assertions that a 24 year old airplane is not out of the ring and a Falcon 10 is certainly quite an airplane and a good pick for someone wanting to enter the jet market on a budget, intelligent too I might add. There are lots of available spares for the aircraft and you wont even have to hunt them down, the suppliers will come to you.

 

[ultrarunner]

100, check your PM again and let me know.

Ultra...

 

[Denizen]

Thanks Ultra.

"Wise guys keep your comments and judgmental throne-
theory to yourself." ???

/Sounds like he should wait until he has enough money to buy a jet that's not obsolete./

You mean like a Citation 10/xls??? I recently heard one of you rusty old guys btch to ATC when denied FL410. "Got a Falcon 10, over-taking you by 50 knots in about 10 minutes." said the controller who laughed uncontrollably over the air when the old guy spouted off "How about a climb to FL430 in 10 minutes or less?" "He really poured it on then; Sir, you just got to 370. Don't you need like 30 minutes or something, to accelerate for that kind of climb? Its on request."

"obsolete"?? pretty sure that is your sphincter muscles running overtime on a fool's uncontrollable outburst? I have 11 cars of varying ages between 10 and 50 years old. I have spent half as much money (and found parts no problem) on my cars that are 2x as old (and had them 2x longer). I have owned 6 aircraft from 35 to 10 years old of similar cabin class/performance and had the newer aircraft eat me alive by a 30% greater margin than the older aircraft BEFORE CONSIDERATION OF ACQUISITION COSTS.


"/sarcasm"? isn't it time you moved out of your mom's basement? or are you still paying on that loan for the giant 6lb watch you "bought" yourself for making SAAB Captain at Silver Airways or whatever they call themselves this year?

1 out of 4 viable responses plus an affirmation of the disappointment potential knew I was engaging. Not bad? Almost a direct sampling of the population that say Obama is a worthy and effective leader???

Thanks for the entertainment. Your mothers should be proud of the aeronautical savants inhabiting their dojos.

100-1/2

Well good luck then. Cars = Airplanes. Feel free to report back about this stellar purchase. Next time you will get nothing but tummy rubs from the commenters about this wise purchase. Buthurt is strong in this one. I am sure your anecdotal evidence of a fictional conversation between crew and ATC will seal the deal with your "client."

 

[jrbevis]

This forum sure is a great place to share information with peers.

/sarcasm

 

[Shag McNasty]

I am sharing information. The Falcon 10 is a turd, plain and simple. Yes, it was a great airplane in the 1970's but if you're considering buying one in 2013 you obviously don't have enough money or sense to buy a jet airplane.

 

[jonjuan]

I am sharing information. The Falcon 10 is a turd, plain and simple. Yes, it was a great airplane in the 1970's but if you're considering buying one in 2013 you obviously don't have enough money or sense to buy a jet airplane.

But with his 6 aircraft owned, don't you understand that the newer ones ate him alive while the older ones didn't?

 

[LJ45]

start looking at what parts cost for the DA-10, its a special airplane.

 

[captfred]

You guys would hate me also then. I not only like the DA10 but the Sabreliner 65! Typed in both and would recommend either depending upon the mission profile.

 

[jrbevis]

I am sharing information. The Falcon 10 is a turd, plain and simple. Yes, it was a great airplane in the 1970's but if you're considering buying one in 2013 you obviously don't have enough money or sense to buy a jet airplane.

What makes you think I was talking about you?

 

[100-1/2]

So, after 20 to 30 years of bouncing around Aviation and in and out of your mom's basement between jobs while you "regroup" an old/good friend comes to you for your stellar advise and counsel; says he wants a $1M to $1.5M Value MAX (for tax purposes - your brain is too small to understand) and an annual operating budget of $300k for 100 to 150hrs...fly 3 to 5 people faster than 450KTAS in/out fields Lears cant go; You get to put the deal together, make your own wage and run the thing for 3-5 yrs while the owner bangs out the depreciation...

...your answer is: hey dickhead, why dont you go get yourself some more money, come back to me and we'll go get a 'real' airplane???

That is why your career aptitude is limited to a parabola not unlike the surface of the Earth and firmly planted to it.

100-1/2

 

[jonjuan]

Why not ask him why the need to go faster than 450? What sort of range is he talking about? Is the speed a perception thing? Does he understand that a delta of 30 knots, for example, only means a few minutes on a 600 nm trip? What runway lengths is he talking about? Thought of a good Citation III (470KTS)?

 

[Shag McNasty]

...your answer is: hey dickhead, why dont you go get yourself some more money, come back to me and we'll go get a 'real' airplane???


100-1/2

No, I wouldn't call him a dickhead. I would advise him to keep his King Air because that's probably all he can really afford at this time.

 

[X-rated]

says he wants a $1M to $1.5M Value MAX (for tax purposes - your brain is too small to understand) and an annual operating budget of $300k for 100 to 150hrs...fly 3 to 5 people faster than 450KTAS in/out fields Lears cant go; You get to put the deal together, make your own wage and run the thing for 3-5 yrs while the owner bangs out the depreciation...

I have doubts about whether you can do the required maintenance on a 35+ year old Falcon for 300K per year let alone pay other DOCs and fixed costs for 100-150 hours in a two pilot jet. If he is serious about the 450Kt min, look into an older Premier. You'll probably still be well North of the 300K operating budget, but you'll be a lot closer than you would be with an old Falcon 10.

The reality is the budget your owner is suggesting is not realistic for the parameters he's giving you. If you want to do him a service, get Conklin and Dedecker numbers and put together a realistic budget, or better yet, suggest a more suitable airplane. It sounds to me like he'd be better served with a King Air or more appropriately, an older Pilatus.

And, just FYI, there is no way a Falcon 10 ever catches a Citation X at 370 under any circumstances short of an engine failure. You're always going to be pulling the TLA's back soon after leveling at FL370 in a X, or you will quickly be blowing through the M.92 Mmo. Either you don't know the difference between a X and an XLS, or you're playing it a little loose with that story.