10/250

[fischman]

Umm. 78 million was Southwests 4th quarter profit. 480 million for the year of 2012.

You also need to look at net, and pre tax profit.

We do need a significant raise though, I agree.

And there ya go.

 

[imacdog]

10/250 is a delusional pipe dream. A more than 100% raise just isn't going to happen. A raise is in order though.

 

[gunfyter]

10/250 is a delusional pipe dream. A more than 100% raise just isn't going to happen. A raise is in order though.

Paycuts are delusional ... :angryfire

 

[fischman]

10/250 is a delusional pipe dream. A more than 100% raise just isn't going to happen. A raise is in order though.

Here's yer sign...

The only reason it is a pipe dream is if you are too stupid to vote yes on anything less.

Who are our peers? 91 operators? No. 135 operators? No. 121 operators? No. Other 91k operators? None of them are close to us, so... No. We are our own entity in the industry and define what we are by our actions. You want to set the bar low? Vote yes for $150,000.

10/250 is not a pipe dream.

 

[billybob]

What is pie in the sky then? 140k 180k 210k 300k Or is -5% about right.

Company in 5 years wants 125k
Us 250k

Do we split the difference and ask for 180k now and stop the talking and vote?

Ps. Njaowner. I'm sorry this is going on.

 

[fischman]

I agree, but what if our employer can't compete? We will lose our jobs in that case, while being SO glad we were paid what we were worth. I hope I am wrong, but an Industry Leading Contract would make me very nervous.

Can't compete? Seriously? What competition? Avantair? CitationAir? Flex and FLOPS are only 30% of the market share.

Someone get his man-card.

 

[imacdog]

Here's yer sign...

The only reason it is a pipe dream is if you are too stupid to vote yes on anything less.

Who are our peers? 91 operators? No. 135 operators? No. 121 operators? No. Other 91k operators? None of them are close to us, so... No. We are our own entity in the industry and define what we are by our actions. You want to set the bar low? Vote yes for $150,000.

10/250 is not a pipe dream.

LOL, alright.

 

[Pervis]

Ps. Njaowner. I'm sorry this is going on.

Don't apologize for the actions of a CEO who will be long gone before the next CBA much less most of our retirement. We continue to do our job in spite of him, thus the high approval ratings for the pilots and FAs.

 

[fischman]

LOL, alright.

Thanks for your support.

 

[imacdog]

If you've read my posts, you know I feel the NJA pilots, all pilots really, are worth good money for their work. There does come a time though when it goes from pride and worth, to stupid. This is one of those times.

 

[X-rated]

This is an honest question; I'm not implying anything. Does anyone know how much BRK has invested and what their ROI is? How much of the initial and subsequent investments have been repaid to date? Just curious if a BRK shareholder would consider NJA profitable at this point. I honestly have no idea.

I hope you get the 250. I would think that would reset the bar for a long range, expat, international captain somewhere in the 350-400 range. That would work for me!

 

[gunfyter]

DON'T CHEAP OUT on your pilots or surgeon:
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1686...b-deal-for-425-jets/?playlist_id=937116503001

 

[fischman]

If you've read my posts, you know I feel the NJA pilots, all pilots really, are worth good money for their work. There does come a time though when it goes from pride and worth, to stupid. This is one of those times.

Thanks again for your support. :erm:

 

[imacdog]

I'm a big fan of reality.

 

[billybob]

Imc
What is it then. I'm not trying to be a d!ck
100-250k you must have a number

 

[imacdog]

No, I don't yet. The number is highly dependant on the rest of the sections. You should know that.

 

[fischman]

I'm a big fan of reality.

I'd say you're a big fan of voting yes. It's the only reason we would fail.

My reality is better than yours.

 

[OPECJet]

Here's yer sign...

The only reason it is a pipe dream is if you are too stupid to vote yes on anything less.

Who are our peers? 91 operators? No. 135 operators? No. 121 operators? No. Other 91k operators? None of them are close to us, so... No. We are our own entity in the industry and define what we are by our actions. You want to set the bar low? Vote yes for $150,000.

10/250 is not a pipe dream.

Fisch, you have to get an agreement to vote. I doubt one is forthcoming with the parties this far apart.

The Part 91K peer group is the same as us. Size of the company doesn't matter. Flexjet and Options pilots do the exact same job as we do, and do it equally well. If we aim too high with these negotiations, we're going to miss very low. If we aim a few minutes above center, we'll hit there or higher.

 

[fischman]

Fisch, you have to get an agreement to vote. I doubt one is forthcoming with the parties this far apart.

The Part 91K peer group is the same as us. Size of the company doesn't matter. Flexjet and Options pilots do the exact same job as we do, and do it equally well. If we aim too high with these negotiations, we're going to miss very low. If we aim a few minutes above center, we'll hit there or higher.

I have to disagree. The size of the company matters greatly. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet combined don't have half the revenue NetJets does. To get the money we are talking about, we are asking for $.02 of every dollar of revenue the company brings in. $.02. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet would obviously have much higher percentages to get to the MINIMUM for 10/$250 and can't compete. COMBINED, they aren't in the same league. We are our own animal and define OURSELVES.

Aim small, miss small. THIS is our chance. Will we take it? Will we settle for NBAA rates for a CE560 driver who only flies 200 hours a year while we do +600 for the same money? The perfect storm is coming for the company. They are short on NetJets pilots. They are making insane amounts of money on operations. They are making insane amounts of money on the Signature Series. The factories can't build the jets fast enough. The economy is recovering. Occupied hours are rising. Oh yeah.. AND THE OWNERS LOVE US, not the company... US. The PILOTS.

Are we going to sell ourselves short like imacdog is willing to do? I'm worth WAYYYYY more than that. If you aren't, time to move on.

 

[fischman]

To add to the perfect storm, the majors are hiring and the pool of qualified applicants is drying up due to the 1500TT rule (which I agree with).

 

[OPECJet]

To add to the perfect storm, the majors are hiring and the pool of qualified applicants is drying up due to the 1500TT rule (which I agree with).

We don't need qualified applicants at the present time. When hiring does start up, unfortunately NJA will be drawing from the same pool as the regionals, if they don't decide to shoot even lower. Time will tell on that deal.

 

[fischman]

We don't need qualified applicants at the present time. When hiring does start up, unfortunately NJA will be drawing from the same pool as the regionals, if they don't decide to shoot even lower. Time will tell on that deal.

Think long term. It is going to be years before the CBA is signed, then the life of the CBA, then the negotiations for the next and so on. There is a qualified pilot shortage.

If we want to be competitive for these QUALIFIED PILOTS which we will need, we will need a competitive salary. That means 10/$250.

 

[hopalong]

I have to disagree. The size of the company matters greatly. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet combined don't have half the revenue NetJets does. To get the money we are talking about, we are asking for $.02 of every dollar of revenue the company brings in. $.02. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet would obviously have much higher percentages to get to the MINIMUM for 10/$250 and can't compete. COMBINED, they aren't in the same league. We are our own animal and define OURSELVES.

Aim small, miss small. THIS is our chance. Will we take it? Will we settle for NBAA rates for a CE560 driver who only flies 200 hours a year while we do +600 for the same money? The perfect storm is coming for the company. They are short on NetJets pilots. They are making insane amounts of money on operations. They are making insane amounts of money on the Signature Series. The factories can't build the jets fast enough. The economy is recovering. Occupied hours are rising. Oh yeah.. AND THE OWNERS LOVE US, not the company... US. The PILOTS.

Are we going to sell ourselves short like imacdog is willing to do? I'm worth WAYYYYY more than that. If you aren't, time to move on.

Excellent Post! We need to demand our worth!

 

[imacdog]

Are we going to sell ourselves short like imacdog is willing to do? I'm worth WAYYYYY more than that. If you aren't, time to move on.

Interesting. You'd leave if a CBA passes where a 10-year captain doesn't make 250K? Can I call you on this after the next contract passes?

 

[gret]

I have to disagree. The size of the company matters greatly. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet combined don't have half the revenue NetJets does. To get the money we are talking about, we are asking for $.02 of every dollar of revenue the company brings in. $.02. Flex, FLOPS, and XOjet would obviously have much higher percentages to get to the MINIMUM for 10/$250 and can't compete. COMBINED, they aren't in the same league. We are our own animal and define OURSELVES.

Aim small, miss small. THIS is our chance. Will we take it? Will we settle for NBAA rates for a CE560 driver who only flies 200 hours a year while we do +600 for the same money? The perfect storm is coming for the company. They are short on NetJets pilots. They are making insane amounts of money on operations. They are making insane amounts of money on the Signature Series. The factories can't build the jets fast enough. The economy is recovering. Occupied hours are rising. Oh yeah.. AND THE OWNERS LOVE US, not the company... US. The PILOTS.

Are we going to sell ourselves short like imacdog is willing to do? I'm worth WAYYYYY more than that. If you aren't, time to move on.

How do you arrive at the 2% cost to the company? That's only $20 million on a billion in sales.

 

[fischman]

Interesting. You'd leave if a CBA passes where a 10-year captain doesn't make 250K? Can I call you on this after the next contract passes?

That's not what I said. I said if you think you are not worth 10/$250 AS A MINIMUM, it's time to move on.

 

[fischman]

How do you arrive at the 2% cost to the company? That's only $20 million on a billion in sales.

I am not a math whiz. It's on the union boards. You can read the post with the math there.

 

[imacdog]

I believe Fisch is also leaving out that the average part 91 pilot, while flying less hours than an equivalent NJA pilot, takes on management, dispatch, flight coordination, and other ancillary duties that NJA pilots do not. Compared with the average part 91 pilots, NJA pilots are actually closer to "walking in and turning left" than not.

 

[imacdog]

That's not what I said. I said if you think you are not worth 10/$250 AS A MINIMUM, it's time to move on.

What's the difference? You don't make that now, so why aren't you moving on? If a contract passes that doesn't get 10/250, are you going to follow your own advice and move on? Or do you just have a cute catch phrase that you don't plan on applying to yourself?

 

[fischman]

I believe Fisch is also leaving out that the average part 91 pilot, while flying less hours than an equivalent NJA pilot, takes on management, dispatch, flight coordination, and other ancillary duties that NJA pilots do not. Compared with the average part 91 pilots, NJA pilots are actually closer to "walking in and turning left" than not.

And we don't?

I've done my own flight planning. I've fixed management errors. I've driven to get catering. I've chauffeured pax to other airports.

Sorry man. 91 pilot doesn't compare.