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No soup for you....says JetBlue....

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StarChecker

Warp this...
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Posts
481
Announced yesterday...

No pay increase for the A321. Not surprising, but just another of the 1000 little cuts that make the decision to move on to a Big-Boy Airline that much easier.

So we pay less for the 190, but now that the bigger airplane is on the way, no more money. I'm sure if the 319/318 showed up instead of the 190, they would have paid the same as the 320.....:rolleyes:


From our "advocate" Chief Pilot:
As we've reiterated many times, it is our goal to pay you competitively, and to do so, we need to adopt pay structures that are competitive with our peers. With that in mind, and given our upcoming delivery of new aircraft, we are planning a single pay rate for the entire A320 family of aircraft (A319/A320/A321)

Now pay attention, BlueBelles:
"...it is our goal to pay you competitively..."

Anyone remember when the goal was Industry Average? Interesting how the language has changed.

And how does one define "competitively"? It is yet another moving target whose strings are firmly controlled by ELT, Flight Ops, F&H, and MWW. Industry average goes up 18.3% next year alone. Too bad the goal is no longer average but competitive.

And Lucy yanks the football away yet again...suckers.


Next.....
 
Frontier has the same pay scale for 318/319/320/321. We don't have any 321s and our last of the 318s are gone. I agree with you that 321 should pay more if it isn't already incorporated into your agreement with JB. The thing is damn near as big as a 757.
 
The vote cant happen soon enough. My prediction is the OC files within a month after the pay review results are announced and signed.
 
Silly bluepilots... Don't you know you have culture! You have to sacrifice to work here and be happy about it.

Long live the bluethisphere!
 
The vote cant happen soon enough. My prediction is the OC files within a month after the pay review results are announced and signed.

A vote will be scheduled once enough cards are signed and delivered. The company already stated that there will be no pay raise until 3a is complete. Also, history has proven that an increase in hourly rates does not necessarily constitute a pay raise. Without proper work rules and a means to hold the company accountable (a la CBA), their version of a pay raise doesn't mean squat. All previous "pay raises" have been cost neutral for the company. This will never change until we pursue a CBA with proper representation. Just sayin.
 
NK has a 10% override for the A321 as a function of A321 block hours flown to the rest of the fleet. No reason B6 shouldn't pay at least that if not more.
 
So let me get this straight. We have no international or 321 override pay. Our rigs are a joke; 10hr 3 days & 17hr 4 days. In the past 12 almost every carrier has seen a bump in overall pay while B6 keeps delaying, health care deductibles & premiums go up, management announces a lower than expected quarter while everyone else is killing it. In turn we get new uniforms and a crew motel built in training. Seems like there's a ton of graffiti on the wall.

"If you can't spot the sucker at the table, you are the sucker"
 
Either vote for a union or vote with your feet and leave for one of the many legacy jobs opening up over the next few years.
 
So let me get this straight. We have no international or 321 override pay. Our rigs are a joke; 10hr 3 days & 17hr 4 days. In the past 12 almost every carrier has seen a bump in overall pay while B6 keeps delaying, health care deductibles & premiums go up, management announces a lower than expected quarter while everyone else is killing it. In turn we get new uniforms and a crew motel built in training. Seems like there's a ton of graffiti on the wall.

"If you can't spot the sucker at the table, you are the sucker"


This!!
 
Either vote for a union or vote with your feet and leave for one of the many legacy jobs opening up over the next few years.

We're working on it. It's amazing how many people refuse to take off the blinders and see the company as it really is.

Download an interest card at www.bluetruthpilots.com.
Mail it to:
Blue Drive
P.O. Box 21702
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33335
 
So let me get this straight. We have no international or 321 override pay. Our rigs are a joke; 10hr 3 days & 17hr 4 days. In the past 12 almost every carrier has seen a bump in overall pay while B6 keeps delaying, health care deductibles & premiums go up, management announces a lower than expected quarter while everyone else is killing it. In turn we get new uniforms and a crew motel built in training. Seems like there's a ton of graffiti on the wall.

"If you can't spot the sucker at the table, you are the sucker"


That will be SMARTA$$$!!! WHERE YOU AT?
 
Comments from a pinnacle pilot. Now does YOUR pay compare to the industry?

I'm ashamed and embarrassed. What's your point? I voted no and 85% voted yes. Now I have to do the walk of shame. But enough about me. You speak so highly o JetBlue so please enlighten us with your words.... Discuss.
 
Guys the only way jb can be a success is if we pay you a single rate. That means more planes and more upgrades and more career advancement for all.

See only ONE company pays more for 321 and they are the exception see look at our chart right here.

( maybe the chart should compare, rigs, workrules, healthcare, and retirement ) oh yeah it doesnt


No sarcasm just the sound of explosive vomit
 
I'm ashamed and embarrassed. What's your point? I voted no and 85% voted yes. Now I have to do the walk of shame. But enough about me. You speak so highly o JetBlue so please enlighten us with your words.... Discuss.

I would take my job at JetBlue 100 times over my former job at your company. That said, I have said many times that we have MANY things to fix here.
 
Guys the only way jb can be a success is if we pay you a single rate. That means more planes and more upgrades and more career advancement for all.

See only ONE company pays more for 321 and they are the exception see look at our chart right here.

( maybe the chart should compare, rigs, workrules, healthcare, and retirement ) oh yeah it doesnt


No sarcasm just the sound of explosive vomit

So fight for the rigs, work rules, healthcare and retirement that improve ALL of our comp packages, instead of fighting for an industry outlyer pay rate for a small subset of airbus pilots.
 
Exactly,,

This is not about a number you get paid an hour.. The clouds are covering the pay benefits and workrules that are not being addressed.. It is much more difficult to put a number on that but " hey look you are industry average see look at this graph "
 
for an industry outlyer pay rate for a small subset of airbus pilots.
nearly every airbus delivered from today on will be 321 s.

Outliar? You are correct. The company data was extremely miss leading.

Sounds like you took it hook line and sinker.
 
nearly every airbus delivered from today on will be 321 s.

Outliar? You are correct. The company data was extremely miss leading.

Sounds like you took it hook line and sinker.

You are such an incredible tool. 30 of the next 90 Airbus deliveries will be 321s. If you are insisting otherwise, you are either making crap up or releasing sensitive non-public company information.

I don't give a crap about the company data on 321 pay. I have seen biased info and data from the PVC as well. I care about the totality of data, and it clearly shows no industry mandate for a separate pay rate for a stretched common type (A319-320-321, 737-700-800-900 etc...). Some due pay an override, more than half or even most don't.

Even if the data was slightly in favor of an override, which it is not, I would say fine, ask for an override as priority number 17, behind overall pay, retirement, healthcare, disability, work rules, international override, rigs, scope, career protections etc..... You know, things that ALL JB pilots NEED!
 
You are such an incredible tool. 30 of the next 90 Airbus deliveries will be 321s. If you are insisting otherwise, you are either making crap up or releasing sensitive non-public company information.

I don't give a crap about the company data on 321 pay. I have seen biased info and data from the PVC as well. I care about the totality of data, and it clearly shows no industry mandate for a separate pay rate for a stretched common type (A319-320-321, 737-700-800-900 etc...). Some due pay an override, more than half or even most don't.

Even if the data was slightly in favor of an override, which it is not, I would say fine, ask for an override as priority number 17, behind overall pay, retirement, healthcare, disability, work rules, international override, rigs, scope, career protections etc..... You know, things that ALL JB pilots NEED!

Flying a 190-seat aircraft for our current A320 rates will but us about 14% behind weighted industry average. What's a measly $24/hr between "friends"?
 
You are such an incredible tool. 30 of the next 90 Airbus deliveries will be 321s. If you are insisting otherwise, you are either making crap up or releasing sensitive non-public company information.

I don't give a crap about the company data on 321 pay. I have seen biased info and data from the PVC as well. I care about the totality of data, and it clearly shows no industry mandate for a separate pay rate for a stretched common type (A319-320-321, 737-700-800-900 etc...). Some due pay an override, more than half or even most don't.
Even if the data was slightly in favor of an override, which it is not, I would say fine, ask for an override as priority number 17, behind overall pay, retirement, healthcare, disability, work rules, international override, rigs, scope, career protections etc..... You know, things that ALL JB pilots NEED!

There you go again. Giving stuff away. Also leadership has made it clear, publically, that the NEOs will be converted to A321.

Were you not the fool that posted that jetblue plots were whining about vacation.

Sucks to be you and consistently behind the curve on what is really occuring at JetBlue. After being educated otherwise using the same tone in the post sbove, you lpost a bold mythical prediction that only an additional 5% would be helped if we had PSIA vacation.

At least your ignorance is both bold and boundless.

You were a prefect hire for your cubical.

Where has the PVC been inaccurate? Post it.
 
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Flying a 190-seat aircraft for our current A320 rates will but us about 14% behind weighted industry average. What's a measly $24/hr between "friends"?


"us" about 14% behind? NO, a small minority of pilots who fly the 321 or the small overall percentage of block hours flown on the 321 MIGHT be behind. But that assumes it is standard to pay more for a stretched COMMON type, which is NOT the case. And even if it were, it is far down on the priority list of things that need to be fixed around here. And even then, the extra revenue should be used to increase the rate for ALL 320 family pay, not just an override for a minority. No airline can be directly, perfectly compared to another, but we are FAR more similar to SW and AK than we are the big multi-multi-multi fleet legacies. They pay a single rate for stretched common types, that way the entire seniority list can benefit from the extra corporate revenue generated.
 
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There you go again. Giving stuff away. Also leadership has made it clear, publically, that the NEOs will be converted to A321.

Were you not the fool that posted that jetblue plots were whining about vacation.

Sucks to be you and consistently behind the curve on what is really occuring at JetBlue. After being educated otherwise using the same tone in the post sbove, you lpost a bold mythical prediction that only an additional 5% would be helped if we had PSIA vacation.

At least your ignorance is both bold and boundless.

You were a prefect hire for your cubical.

Where has the PVC been inaccurate? Post it.


They have said publically that the NEOs will be converted? Show me ONE press release or employee/investor communication saying that. One.

As far as vacation, I NEVER said that PSIA vacation would only benefit an additional 5%. I said, and am completely correct that if you DOUBLE ... (2 times, 2X (don't know if math confuses you)) the number of premium weeks (summer, Christmas, etc...), you will double the number of pilots who can take advantage of them, which is currently about 5%. By the way, PSIA vacation would mean we would have to change the way we bid for vacation to rounds of bidding, something you senior guys don't want to do. Either way, doubling premium vacation period allocation will help about another 5% of bidders, if you DON'T also change the way we bid into rounds of 2 weeks at a time. If you also change the bidding system into rounds, you will again approximately double the amount of bidders who can benefit from the premium weeks, at the expense of the senior citizens.

Now, changing the way we bid to 2 week rounds, helps more junior bidders have access to premium weeks, approximately changing the bid percentage to hold good weeks from 5% to 10% because senior bidders who were all taking 4+ weeks are now limited to 2 weeks(you know, like our peer set), without increasing allocation. This helps relatively more junior pilots, at the expense of the senior citizens, but has no adverse affect on the company or on bid divisors in trough months.

Doubling allocation of premium weeks will have the SAME mathematical effect on bidding seniority, but WILL have adverse effects on the company and the other 80% of the pilots. First, staffing of premium weeks (summer, Christmas, etc...) is THE LIMIT STAFFING FACTOR. If you want to just add ONE more week of Christmas vacation, you must hire one more pilot for every seat, in each aircraft, in each base. Same goes for each week of extra summer vacation, or Thanksgiving. This has a tremendous cost to the company. One of you said it saves the company 30-60 million dollars a year. That is 1-2 new aircraft a year, which over a career is very significant. If you believe the company can just give us another 30-60 million a year for vacation, plus an A321 pay override, plus all the other pay and benefit improvements you want, without harming the companies finances or slowing our growth rate notably, you must have recieved your economics training from the Willy Wonka School of Gum Drops.

Furthermore, those extra pilots will have to be carried during the trough months, so the bottom 80% of the seniority in each seat won't see the benefits from increased premium weeks of vacation, but we will suffer the low 70 hour lines 7 months of the year, and the slower growing airline which will effect our income, and QOL for our entire careers. Your solution of just forcing pilots to take their vacations during trough months is BS. First of all, it does nothing to relieve the cost burden on the company, so we will still be less competitive and slower growing. Second, if I am in the bottom 80% of seniority in seat, I do NOT want to be FORCED to exhaust MY vacation hours when my kids are in school, just so you senior citizens can have 5 weeks of summer vacation, Christmas, Labor Day, Columbus Day, and Black History Month OFF. I would rather save those hours to drop individual trips, bid open vacation slots that come available mid year, or sell back hours at 150% pay, instead of WASTING them while my kids are in school.

As far as the PVC, many/most communications and surveys have been biased or misleading in one way or another. For example, a recent communication said that our pilot CASM was 30ish percent less than Deltas, but didn't put that number into proper context. Most sheeple will read that and come to the conclussion that if we were given Deltas contract, we would get a 30% raise. But that 30% number suffers from at least two significant errors. Longevity and widebody aircraft. You could give us Delta contract here at JB, the same exact contract, and we would STILL have a lower pilot CASM than DL. Our pilots have an average longevity that is significantly lower than DLs. This is especially significant with FOs, where we have many 1-2-3-4 year FOs on the very low end of the pay scale, as well as a statiscially small percentage of our captains on 12 year pay. DL on the other hand, has the majority of its captains and FOs on 12 year pay. Secondly, that CASM gap is very much affected by DLs widebody pay rates, which are much higher than our narrowbody pay rates. 1/3 of the their pilots are on much higher paying widebody aircraft that we DON'T even have. So, even if we had DLs contract, we still would work at a discount, as measured by pilot CASM. This all goes for United, American, and the longevity bias extends to SW and AK as well. But no mention from the PVC on putting those numbers in the proper context.

With that said, I am glad the PVC is exposing the companies lies and spin, as well as our deficit to other airlines pay and benefits. But they are OUR advocates, not the company's, and have shown significant bias in most of their communications.

As for you, I won't be bullied into silence by your arrogant assertions of my ignorance. I bow to no-one. Not the company, not the PVC, not you. I will assess all available information and make my own conclussions, and call you out when you are clearly trying to disadvantage those junior to you for your advantage.

So listen closely, GO F### YOURSELF.
 
Check my posts. I have always said vacation is allocation, bidding, distribution, accrual bank bank issue.

PP is going away too. Not from your pea but to global opentime.

Dave barger has said a320 will be converted. Count on it.

PVC is using the same data point as blue jet. Where was your outrage?

You are stuck in your regional mindset that pilots have to fund growth with our work rules, pay and benefits.

You are 3 years behind the power curve and running on pure emotion with your own set of mythical so called facts.

But hey you drop a lot of f bombs.
 
Check my posts. I have always said vacation is allocation, bidding, distribution, accrual bank bank issue.

PP is going away too. Not from your pea but to global opentime.

Dave barger has said a320 will be converted. Count on it.

PVC is using the same data point as blue jet. Where was your outrage?

You are stuck in your regional mindset that pilots have to fund growth with our work rules, pay and benefits.

You are 3 years behind the power curve and running on pure emotion with your own set of mythical so called facts.

But hey you drop a lot of f bombs.

And you believe that corporate money is a completely unlimited resource, and all our pilot compensation dreams can be delivered times two with no change to the company finances whatsoever. You also apparently believe growing an airline is free, and any airline who wants to grow can do so, at any rate it wants, without regard for its balance sheet, the space it occupies within the industry, the strength of its competition, its debts or its costs.

EVERYTHING IS FREE!!! Yippeeeee!
 
Ha ha you said pilot comp (expense) and balance sheet.

Your ignorance is bold and boundless and on display.

At least you are anyomous.
 
Ha ha you said pilot comp (expense) and balance sheet.

Your ignorance is bold and boundless and on display.

At least you are anyomous.

And I never linked one to the other tool. Simply calling someone else ignorant, doesn't make you smart or informed, no matter how badly you want it to.
 

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