JetBlue Gateway

[Flyer1015]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Xx4jwh7Fs

 

[wt219200]

Good for them. I wish I could've done that. Anyone that says differently is lying. I'm sure some will say that it's not necessary and that JetBlue will have plenty of resumes. I'm guessing JetBlue likes this program because they are so big on culture. They get to look at the pilot and get to know him/her for years before they get to JetBlue. Many can put on a facade for a few hours during an interview only to turn into nightmares out on the line. The people that don't like this program are just jealous and it goes to the core of many pilots "if I had to do it so do you" mentality.

Did anyone else watch the video and hear Barger drop Expressjet's name in there? A little peak into the future of this program maybe?

 

[labbats]

From your profile your view is a bit biased too.

 

[CX880]

Don't be surprised if you see this for other majors in a few years.

 

[wt219200]

From your profile your view is a bit biased too.

I could see where you could think that but I'm not a part of this program, nor have I ever been. I actually used to have a very different opinion of it. I came to realize it was just envy or jealousy or the old paying your dues attitude that helped form that opinion.

 

[kommutrdog]

deleted

 

[clickclickboom]

It is actually a gateway for all airlines. They will enter the program realize that the entire pay and benefits package sucks and they will apply elsewhere and get hired. Guys if you are in this pipeline and working towards this keep motivated and do your best. Listen to all the advice given to you and take every opportunity to gain experience.

That being said you are a fool if you think that JB is the pinnacle of a fasttrack career path for you. There are MUCH better opportunities at nearly every other major.

I cant believe I am saying this but you may actually be better off going to one of the regionals. If they dont now they will within a few years have flowthroughs as staffing becomes more challenging.

JB is cutting pay and benefits through efficiencies. I personally made 8k less last year than the year prior and worked 15 days more. This month we have pilots awarded 70 hours lines with 12 days off..

Learn about jb at www.bluetruthpilots.com learn the fact, gather information, and make an unemotional forward looking educated business decision

 

[Smarta$$]

It is actually a gateway for all airlines. They will enter the program realize that the entire pay and benefits package sucks and they will apply elsewhere and get hired. Guys if you are in this pipeline and working towards this keep motivated and do your best. Listen to all the advice given to you and take every opportunity to gain experience.

That being said you are a fool if you think that JB is the pinnacle of a fasttrack career path for you. There are MUCH better opportunities at nearly every other major.

I cant believe I am saying this but you may actually be better off going to one of the regionals. If they dont now they will within a few years have flowthroughs as staffing becomes more challenging.

JB is cutting pay and benefits through efficiencies. I personally made 8k less last year than the year prior and worked 15 days more. This month we have pilots awarded 70 hours lines with 12 days off..

Learn about jb at www.bluetruthpilots.com learn the fact, gather information, and make an unemotional forward looking educated business decision

Yep, even if we get a union and a pay raise, with all the retirements, bases, and worldwide widebody fleets offered at the legacies, you would be an idiot to stay at JB.

 

[kommutrdog]

The smart play for these ERAU sky kings is to take that 402 time and sell their soul to some regional and stick it out. Quick upgrade and valuable jet PIC time.

Plus, they'll have the protection of a CBA, like they did at Cape Air.

It's only a "gateway" to putting all your eggs in one basket. There are much, much better career pathways available for someone with 3000+ hours and a ton of multi-engine time.

 

[CapnVegetto]

In about 3-4 years, you're not going to need TPIC. Every carrier will not be able to hire fast enough. B6 can hire all the Cape Air Riddle Rats they want and feed them all the culture they want, it won't stop them from leaving, especially once they get a taste of the lovely lack of benefits and retirement.

The only thing that is going to stop B6 from becoming a type rating factory is better compensation, which management is seemingly unwilling to do.

They are about to have a mass exodus, and are completely clueless about it. They've never had to deal with a good pilot hiring market before, they've been completely spoiled by always being in a post 9/11 environment. Now the tide is turning and they have their heads in the sand and are refusing to deal with reality.

It's going to be bad.

 

[Splert]

See ya 190 fleet.

Problem solved.

 

[clickclickboom]

If you are reading this keep in mind that some of the posters above are newer ( as in last couple years ) pilots here even recently they have defended the company as they gathered facts for themselves. They did and had the benefit of a PVC Pilot Values Committe that is completely transparent in showing our shortcomings. Now some of these same guys are saying " Dont waste your time "

Stall, delay, divert has been a regular theme here and this time its caught up with the elt even though they dont know it yet. We could seriously be in trouble. If it works for you great come on in let them spend tens of thousands training you and then wait until a better deal comes along. IT WILL and SOON !! If you have to sign some training contract or are on the hook for 2-5 years tell them to pound sand..

Dont compromise Dont Lower your Standards or Expectations.. ITs your market your time

Tell them the truth that our pay benefits workrules elt performance and investor confidence in our diluted stock is bad business decision for your future and family.

We have hundreds of guys that came here in the last 3-4 years that bought the sales pitch and they have realized they are going backwards

 

[pilotpayne]

Tell them the truth that our pay benefits workrules elt performance and investor confidence in our diluted stock is bad business decision for your future and family.

Yeah stick it out at a regional much better Idea.
You guys are a bunch of DRAMA queens so much anger between here and bluepilots and yet I DON'T SEE A UNION DRIVE....I am ready to vote yes. Now that you are all at jetblue you make it out that someone at a regional or anywhere else, can just snap their fingers and end up at United. The funny thing is ALL OF YOU took the time to apply here and for the guys hired since I have been here the only big change to the downside was healthcare(which got bad). Yes I know what the ELT wants. We did get the extra retirement and a pay bump. I am waiting to see what they come out with and till that happens what is the point of debating this. It is all up to the ELT to fix the problems....and there are many.....or have a union. I was a captain at a regional doing pretty well and living in base and do not regret coming to jetblue one bit. I would rather sit here and evaluate than sit where I was, and it must be the same for many of you unless jetblue just forced you to come work here. This industry changes fast, a year or two ago jetblue looked like a good deal now things have shifted and if they want to compete they have to catch up. But how about you guys lay off calling people fools for what they want to do. For the record about 50% up the list and in September 18 days off and 77 hours. We can play that game with any airline schedule. I am not a juicer but at the same time I think you guys get really get carried away with this stuff. Soon you will all be like Barney on bluepilots talking about burning the place down. Jetblue is what it is and I don't understand why so many people are shocked by that. When I was interviewing The Dave came in and said point blank you will not be the highest paid.....now here is where it gets sticky, he did say you will be paid average.....now its time to get that and failure to do so I think will be a union. The PVC is doing a great job with what they can and I hope they continue to offer the other side of the ELT story. All we can do is work in the system we have NOW and if enough guys don't like it or the ELT dicks up this pay review we change they system with a vote.

 

[pilotpayne]

Yep, even if we get a union and a pay raise, with all the retirements, bases, and worldwide widebody fleets offered at the legacies, you would be an idiot to stay at JB.

So why did you even take the time to come here?
Should have just stayed where you were and waited for a "real airline"

 

[CapnVegetto]

So why did you even take the time to come here?
Should have just stayed where you were and waited for a "real airline"

Depends on your situation. Probably not. As a 3rd year FO I make more money than most of my RJ captain friends.

Jetblue is still a step up from damn near any Regional, and if you are senior enough for it not to be, you're probably a lifer anyway.

 

[pilotpayne]

Depends on your situation. Probably not. As a 3rd year FO I make more money than most of my RJ captain friends.

Jetblue is still a step up from damn near any Regional, and if you are senior enough for it not to be, you're probably a lifer anyway.

I agree

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

You guys are a bunch of DRAMA queens so much anger between here and bluepilots and yet I DON'T SEE A UNION DRIVE....I am ready to vote yes.

Just because one does not see something does not necessarily mean there is nothing to see. The union drive is alive and well. The DR has done a great job of turning no voters into yes voters. The tide has turned and our time will come.

Once there are enough interest cards signed, there will be a vote. It may surprise you to know that there are plenty of yes voters who still have not turned in a card.

Send in a card. Tell your friends to send in a card.

"In business, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."

 

[kommutrdog]

Depends on your situation. Probably not. As a 3rd year FO I make more money than most of my RJ captain friends.

Jetblue is still a step up from damn near any Regional, and if you are senior enough for it not to be, you're probably a lifer anyway.

Care to compare medical plans?

Although not a regional, my friend at Netjets just had a child. Out of pocket costs? $100. And that was for Florida's "child permit" or whatever fee it was called.

I didn't become a professional airline pilot to end up with a medical plan on par with Walmart and the whole "if you don't like it here, then go somewhere else" meme tends to lose its appeal since I began flying airplanes in 1991.

 

[Flyer1015]

Care to compare medical plans?

Although not a regional, my friend at Netjets just had a child. Out of pocket costs? $100. And that was for Florida's "child permit" or whatever fee it was called.

I didn't become a professional airline pilot to end up with a medical plan on par with Walmart and the whole "if you don't like it here, then go somewhere else" meme tends to lose its appeal since I began flying airplanes in 1991.

Your friend must be lucky. My friend at NetJets has been unemployed for almost 4 years now.

 

[kommutrdog]

Your friend must be lucky. My friend at NetJets has been unemployed for almost 4 years now.

So does that mean we should continue to tolerate substandard healthcare and retirement packages?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm employed and so far the paychecks have cleared, HOWEVER, the continuous lies, deceits, delays and corporate spin tactics have gotten OLD.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3bhh8fqYs

 

[clickclickboom]

Cmon Joe dont pick apart my post to support your argument..

I was making a statement that WHEN the shortage hits and all of the airlines roll into hiring high gear that a pilot may be making a better career choice going from their twin cessna to a regional. That may lead to a quicker upgrade, accrual of pic jet time and make them more competitive for a fast track to a true " Destination Airline " Getting stuck in the right seat at blue could cost them a couple years. Doesnt mean that the regional job may suck and it certainly doesnt insuinate that the regional job is better than blue but the career path progression may be.

Nobody is being called a " FOOL " for coming to blue. I was saying that you would be a fool to think that the gateway program was the path to the pinnacle of your career because better options exist.

Now answer something for me You state that you are all for a union and admit that we have these problems that need fixed. Do you TRULY think that our current ELT is going to wave their magic wand and fix our issues? I will certainly not call you a fool because my experience flying with you is that you are anything but that BUT you are truly foolish to think that our current team has any inclination to make us whole. There is a comprehensive plan to strip what little we have left. Read your pvc emails, analize the blue truth communications and seek confirmation. Finish by reading the poorly executed sewage spewed by the PAR team.

Sorry no drama here just facts..

 

[pilotpayne]

Cmon Joe dont pick apart my post to support your argument..

I was making a statement that WHEN the shortage hits and all of the airlines roll into hiring high gear that a pilot may be making a better career choice going from their twin cessna to a regional. That may lead to a quicker upgrade, accrual of pic jet time and make them more competitive for a fast track to a true " Destination Airline " Getting stuck in the right seat at blue could cost them a couple years. Doesnt mean that the regional job may suck and it certainly doesnt insuinate that the regional job is better than blue but the career path progression may be.

Nobody is being called a " FOOL " for coming to blue. I was saying that you would be a fool to think that the gateway program was the path to the pinnacle of your career because better options exist.

Now answer something for me You state that you are all for a union and admit that we have these problems that need fixed. Do you TRULY think that our current ELT is going to wave their magic wand and fix our issues? I will certainly not call you a fool because my experience flying with you is that you are anything but that BUT you are truly foolish to think that our current team has any inclination to make us whole. There is a comprehensive plan to strip what little we have left. Read your pvc emails, analize the blue truth communications and seek confirmation. Finish by reading the poorly executed sewage spewed by the PAR team.

Sorry no drama here just facts..

I see what you are saying and I misread your post.
(sorry about that)
I do read the q reports the pvc emails the par emails the bluetruth emails, I listen to the pod-casts and Robs phone show. I ask everyone I can what they have seen happen and what they think will happen. I do this to educate myself so I will be ready to make an informed choice when the time comes. I do have to ask have you seen this "comprehensive plan"? I have no doubt if we vote in a union it will take a ton of work to fix things and the ELT nor ALPA will wave their wands and fix it all right away. The ELT will get the union it deserves. The ELT has it in their hands right now if they were to fix most things do you think a union vote would pass? As for the gateway, if Blue grabs these guys right out of school you will see a whole new level of ...and I hate the term...."blue juicer" I am a middle of the road guy who needs to stop reading bluepilots for my own sanity.....I think i will just stick to flightinfo and airlinepilotcentral....

 

[clickclickboom]

If the elt fixed the 20 some odd items outstanding i dont think a union would pass. I do feel that they already expect a union and figure they might as well seek efficiencies and then negotiate back to the previous status quo.. I do think the group is beyond that at this point

 

[pilotpayne]

If the elt fixed the 20 some odd items outstanding i dont think a union would pass. I do feel that they already expect a union and figure they might as well seek efficiencies and then negotiate back to the previous status quo.. I do think the group is beyond that at this point

I could see that.

 

[B6Busdriver]

If the elt fixed the 20 some odd items outstanding i dont think a union would pass. I do feel that they already expect a union and figure they might as well seek efficiencies and then negotiate back to the previous status quo.. I do think the group is beyond that at this point

I think our management suffers from arrogant incompetence. They really believe they can beat any union drive, this is based on personal communications with those much closer to mgmt then me.

 

[pilotpayne]

I think our management suffers from arrogant incompetence. They really believe they can beat any union drive, this is based on personal communications with those much closer to mgmt then me.

Well it is ELT 2
Union 0 so I could see why they think that.

 

[Vingus]

I see what you are saying and I misread your post.
(sorry about that)
I do read the q reports the pvc emails the par emails the bluetruth emails, I listen to the pod-casts and Robs phone show. I ask everyone I can what they have seen happen and what they think will happen. I do this to educate myself so I will be ready to make an informed choice when the time comes. I do have to ask have you seen this "comprehensive plan"? I have no doubt if we vote in a union it will take a ton of work to fix things and the ELT nor ALPA will wave their wands and fix it all right away. The ELT will get the union it deserves. The ELT has it in their hands right now if they were to fix most things do you think a union vote would pass? As for the gateway, if Blue grabs these guys right out of school you will see a whole new level of ...and I hate the term...."blue juicer" I am a middle of the road guy who needs to stop reading bluepilots for my own sanity.....I think i will just stick to flightinfo and airlinepilotcentral....

Just curious...how long have you been at the Blue? I'm a 2005 hire and many have said this every year when the pay/benefits review comes around. Although we may have had one or two improvements, they have not come fast or comprehensive enough. There are still huge gaps to bring us up to a "real" major airline pilot status.

After you have had the football pulled away as many times as I have, these guys could give me the world and I would still vote yes.

 

[clickclickboom]

If you guys have any questions about the real jetblue send a pm to b6driver Apparently everyone on this board ( me included ) are just clueless incompetents. He just couldnt help himself in his rapid fire PM's to me.

Translated as: I am an apathetic unengaged, uneduacted pilot that refuse to learn the facts and or just dont care because i am either 1. senior enough that my special jb experience is all that matters or 2. I am truly clueless and blind to the reality as our professional careers slowly erode in the name of corporate efficiencies and funding of a near 40% annual increase in elt compensation and bonus.

Question of the day: Why would our elt add a clause to their contracts that guarantee 100% bonus targets for their up to 100% of annual salary bonuses in the event of a transactional event? I thought we were growing organically?

Also why would our elt need an unlimited codeshare in exchange for a sub industry average raise?

 

[CapnVegetto]

If you guys have any questions about the real jetblue send a pm to b6driver Apparently everyone on this board ( me included ) are just clueless incompetents. He just couldnt help himself in his rapid fire PM's to me.

Translated as: I am an apathetic unengaged, uneduacted pilot that refuse to learn the facts and or just dont care because i am either 1. senior enough that my special jb experience is all that matters or 2. I am truly clueless and blind to the reality as our professional careers slowly erode in the name of corporate efficiencies and funding of a near 40% annual increase in elt compensation and bonus.

Question of the day: Why would our elt add a clause to their contracts that guarantee 100% bonus targets for their up to 100% of annual salary bonuses in the event of a transactional event? I thought we were growing organically?

Also why would our elt need an unlimited codeshare in exchange for a sub industry average raise?

He's 1 of 2 people on my ignore list. He is a moron. Hopeless and clueless.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Care to compare medical plans?

Although not a regional, my friend at Netjets just had a child. Out of pocket costs? $100. And that was for Florida's "child permit" or whatever fee it was called.

I didn't become a professional airline pilot to end up with a medical plan on par with Walmart and the whole "if you don't like it here, then go somewhere else" meme tends to lose its appeal since I began flying airplanes in 1991.

Medical is $hit, retirement is $hit. I know this. But $85 bucks an hour is more than most regional captains make, not including premium. It's up to you to do the math and decide if it's worth it. If you're a young single guy, it's a no brainer. If you're on reserve, chances are it's still a no brainer. If you're senior as hell, or have a family, things change. Up to you to decide. But odds are, the math will favor JetBlue is most circumstances.

BTW, Netjets ain't no damn POS regional. WAAAAAAAY different. I wouldn't leave Netjets for JetBlue. I would leave damn near any regional.