PSA and piedmont

[paddlehigh]

Rumor is they are going to merge. Starting nov. park one 200 and one dash, and add two 900's to birding fleet combined to 89 aircraft.

 

[cbrown1]

what about cities like Hilton head?

 

[paddlehigh]

Delta dropped it with no problem.

 

[FMEpilot]

I have heard several people mention Nov. in the very recent past.

 

[Flyin2low]

What would be the benefit of a PSA/PDT merger? It has been released in the past that it may have saved 22 million in 2005. That is chump change in the airline business.

 

[FMEpilot]

Benefit? Staffing regional feed. They need (sadly) us PDT pilots. There is nothing attractive about working here... but combine the two and you might keep your needed feed flying.

 

[WSurf]

Why add 900's???? You might as well go for the C-Series and Q400's.

 

[Flybywire44]

what about cities like Hilton head?

Hopefully HHI sees the light and gets a runway extension.

Either that or SAV is going to continue siphoning traffic.

 

[Sig]

Totally unsure what HHI is, but as an operator in and out of HHH/HXD in the Dash for PDT, I sure found Parker's words about DFW-HHH fascinating. A runway extension isn't necessarily as important as tree cutting, as far as direct operational impact. The terminal can't handle an E175 as a taxi in and turn out, and I doubt the taxiways can (trees, yet different reasons). Either way, the island hates the idea of runway extension and/or cutting trees. Plenty of boredom fodder if you look for it on google regarding this issue.

What was the title of this thread?

Oh yeah. PDT/PSA merge. Whatever. It'll be a bloodbath if it happens.

 

[kf4amu]

Hopefully they will never extend the runway. It's a waste of money. SAV is 45 minutes away. If that 45 minute drive is too long, pay up for the convenience.

 

[Sig]

Hopefully they will never extend the runway.

That was my point, and my premise was flawed. Following my own advice, I found this:

http://blogs.islandpacket.com/40774 from 2011,

http://www.islandpacket.com/2012/06/14/2102505/hilton-head-residents-continue.html from 2012

and this:

http://www.islandpacket.com/2012/04/19/2042536/county-could-shorten-timeline.html from just a few weeks prior.

Either way, the push is there. Parker knows some things we don't.

What was this thread about?

One more:
http://bcgov.net/about-beaufort-cou...7 2012 Public Information Meeting Summary.pdf

 

[kf4amu]

So 50,000 passengers per year should pay for a multi million dollar runway extension so USAir can make more money. Righttttt....that should work out just like Obamacare.

"Hilton Head previously charged a $3 passenger fee from 2000 to 2007. The airport collected about $1.4 million from that fee. The money was used to buy land for the control tower and general aviation development."

http://www.islandpacket.com/2012/04/19/2042536/county-could-shorten-timeline.html

So USAir essentially paid for the control tower's land and general aviation development...the last thing we need is those local yokels spending more of the airline's revenue.

 

[Sig]

I edited my post to include some more numbers. I am at a loss trying to understand the local yokels vs. airline money.

And please, PLEASE drop USAir. It's another lingering malaprop for the name of the airline, much like "circling the airport" for holding and "tarmac" or "runway" for all airport surfaces outside security.

 

[kf4amu]

I edited my post to include some more numbers. I am at a loss trying to understand the local yokels vs. airline money.

And please, PLEASE drop USAir. It's another lingering malaprop for the name of the airline, much like "circling the airport" for holding and "tarmac" or "runway" for all airport surfaces outside security.

If USAir could charge another 1.50 for a ticket, they would. But they can't. Any extra fee equals a reduction in passenger traffic. That's a loss of revenue for USAir, which means they are paying for whatever the local yokels decide to spend it on. Like an unnecessary runway extension.

 

[BoilerUP]

I was shocked when I landed at HXD about a year and and saw that they had cut trees down on the approach end of RW21. As Sig mentioned, proper clearways and being able to use the full length of the existing runway would help a LOT even without extending the runway.

I always figured the penalty for killing a human on Hilton Head was less than killing a tree.

 

[FMEpilot]

If USAir could charge another 1.50 for a ticket, they would. But they can't. Any extra fee equals a reduction in passenger traffic. That's a loss of revenue for USAir, which means they are paying for whatever the local yokels decide to spend it on. Like an unnecessary runway extension.

Of course they could. And they will if they want to keep full planes and service (see our aircraft retirements and no fleet plan) into HH. If you believe that people who already pay a premium for a ticket onto the island so they don't have to make the 45 minute drive would notice the buck fiddy then you're mistaken.

 

[kf4amu]

Of course they could. And they will if they want to keep full planes and service (see our aircraft retirements and no fleet plan) into HH. If you believe that people who already pay a premium for a ticket onto the island so they don't have to make the 45 minute drive would notice the buck fiddy then you're mistaken.

You are mistaken that they do not. Maybe only one person out of 1000, but the price/yield/revenue relationship is pretty standard among all products with elastic demand.

 

[FMEpilot]

Applying this kind of economic theory to a market like HH as well as DCA I believe is flawed. The demand is and has always been stable to the island even during the downturn in 08.

 

[Sig]

You are mistaken that they do not. Maybe only one person out of 1000, but the price/yield/revenue relationship is pretty standard among all products with elastic demand.

This is what you're bickering over? Our house is on fire, and you're manning the ham radio awaiting the news of an alien invasion.

Your galloping arrogance knows no bounds, man. One airline providing service to a destination is about as inelastic as it gets. How full are we in and out of there? You make and break a market on fees the Aiport Authority charges? You're back-assward on this, because there is no way saving time/money from SAV is outpaced by 6 shiny quarters.

You sure sound good, though. I'll give you that. Too bad you're utterly full of sh*t by your own very authoritative sounding premise.

 

[kf4amu]

This is what you're bickering over? Our house is on fire, and you're manning the ham radio awaiting the news of an alien invasion.

Your galloping arrogance knows no bounds, man. One airline providing service to a destination is about as inelastic as it gets. How full are we in and out of there? You make and break a market on fees the Aiport Authority charges? You're back-assward on this, because there is no way saving time/money from SAV is outpaced by 6 shiny quarters.

You sure sound good, though. I'll give you that. Too bad you're utterly full of sh*t by your own very authoritative sounding premise.

Not bickering, just pointing out that supply and demand is always affected by price. Even 6 quarters. If US could increase the price any more, they would. You think that they are leaving money on the table for no reason?

The point is any increase in fees is an increase in the ticket price that the airline no longer gets, which means less people fly than would have otherwise flown. It's a principle that applies equally to HHH as it does any other market, and not just the airline industry.

Look to Parker's comments on the low fees at CLT. The low cost is cited as one of the biggest reason CLT is a major hub for USAir.

But, since you think airport fees don't matter, I wonder why YOU think CLT is such a big hub, because the city size does not justify the size of the airport that's for sure.

 

[FMEpilot]

You comparing low fees at CLT to $1.50 increase at HHH is beyond comprehension. I mean, we could get into the number of daily flights out of CLT, the fact that other carriers serve CLT, etc. The airline industry is clearly much more unique then you think. Yes basic economic principals apply, but I will state for fact, increasing a fare by $1.50 in a market like Hilton Head would not change demand.... the price of a round trip tank of gas to SAV..maybe. If the island wants it and US Airways wants to continue to serve it, it'll happen.

 

[WSurf]

Hilton Head is one of if not the highest yield airport at airways. You could increase prices and demand won't fall. You stand in line at the ticket counter and watch how many people are on first name basis with the gate agents. Not saying Airways won't pull out, but it's a gold mine for them.

 

[cheapgreek]

Totally unsure what HHI is, but as an operator in and out of HHH/HXD in the Dash for PDT, I sure found Parker's words about DFW-HHH fascinating. A runway extension isn't necessarily as important as tree cutting, as far as direct operational impact. The terminal can't handle an E175 as a taxi in and turn out, and I doubt the taxiways can (trees, yet different reasons). Either way, the island hates the idea of runway extension and/or cutting trees. Plenty of boredom fodder if you look for it on google regarding this issue.

What was the title of this thread?

Oh yeah. PDT/PSA merge. Whatever. It'll be a bloodbath if it happens.

Trees were cut last year and the 4300 foot runway shows 300 foot displaced thresholds on both ends. The plan is to extend the runway in two stages, first to 5000 feet and then 5400 feet. Why in two stages beats me, do it once and be done with it. Delta and the SaabA340 were weight restricted to 21 seats and at times the dashes are also weight restricted.
Its a good market with yearly boardings the last few years around 60k.
As far as the locals, every airport has small group that feel it is their duty to oppose any project with the words "airport" and "expansion" in it.
At 5400 feet with clear approaches, RJ's to CLT and with Delta to ATL, both hubs within 300 miles away should work and that would be about all the airport would need. Look what is done at Key West with a 4800 foot runway.
When a customer buys a ticket to Hilton Head, they should be able to fly to their final destination and not in another airport in another state.

 

[cheapgreek]

Rumor is they are going to merge. Starting nov. park one 200 and one dash, and add two 900's to birding fleet combined to 89 aircraft.

906 has been parked, in October 908 will reach cycle limits and in December so will 907. I don't know if any other Dash's will time out in 2014, if anybody knows, please reply.

 

[FMEpilot]

2-4 if I recall correctly.

 

[kf4amu]

Anyone who says US could increase prices and demand would not fall "because it's hilton head" obviously has no economic or business experience.

 

[FMEpilot]

Obviously you're incorrect. In all aspects of your last statement.. SC and SC vaction destination economics or difficult to reach vacation destinations with higher then natl median income average economics... not your strong suit. To make HH accessable to greater then 2 destinations, the airport authority and island town council will authorize an increased boarding fee with lcc's aporoval. To say otherwise is just naive.

 

[kf4amu]

Obviously you're incorrect. In all aspects of your last statement.. SC and SC vaction destination economics or difficult to reach vacation destinations with higher then natl median income average economics... not your strong suit. To make HH accessable to greater then 2 destinations, the airport authority and island town council will authorize an increased boarding fee with lcc's aporoval. To say otherwise is just naive.

LCC's approval has nothing to do with an economic principle. They may be able to increase yield by decreasing costs through higher load factors after the runway extension etc. If that encourages competition it will increase the price sensitivity that passenger have. Sure the AA and Island council may want it but that has nothing to do with a basic price and quantity curve.

But to say that Hilton Head is a "difficult to reach destination" is laughable. I just pointed out SAV is 45 minutes away.

Only in ya'll's world does a Price/Quantity curve level off for at least $1.50 "because it's hilton head".

 

[FMEpilot]

The incredible lack of common sense is getting old. Enjoy the HAM radio, perhaps you can get someone to agree with you on Guam.

 

[kf4amu]

The incredible lack of common sense is getting old. Enjoy the HAM radio, perhaps you can get someone to agree with you on Guam.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the idea that customers don't have price sensitivity, especially to a leisure destination like HHH with a much cheaper airport 45 minutes away.

Stop playing amateur economist and go run a business. You'll quickly find out how price sensitive customers are.