Endeavor Air-(Pinnacle, Colgan, Mesaba)

[IBNAV8R]

And scabs keep on flying.

Please define "scab" as it pertains to the point you are failing to make.

 

[1.3XVso]

Please define "scab" as it pertains to the point you are failing to make.

What's so hard? Company koolaid. Who else?

 

[i fly boxes]

1. does anyone know when the fences will drop?
2. does anyone know when we will find out what this ssp program actually will be like?

 

[xjhawk]

The fences were for 5 years. SO, i would think we have two more years of them. As for the SSP program there has not been a word about how it will work or what Delta's requirements will be. I think the program is funny as what I heard from Wychor and what I read about the program is completely different. The huge difference is that Wychor said that we have 12 (?) slots per month where as the document says 12 interviews per month. Hint to our union-that is a huge difference in how it would work. But I am assuming they do not care as my bet is they will be the first hired when it all starts.

 

[i fly boxes]

I was talking about the operational fences. Anyone know that

 

[mesaba13]

Where have you read that it is 12 interviews a month? I just read the bridge agreement on the ALPA website signed by all parties and it clearly states minimum numbers of Pinnacle pilots in Delta new hire classes.

 

[i fly boxes]

12 spots per class is the minimum. They could interview as many as they want to get that. That's why some people think they will interview us in bulk and put us in a pool of some sorts.

 

[i fly boxes]

We are now properly staffed for our flying as of January 1 2014
With 116 200s and 53 900s we will have 6.8 crews per plane if no one else leaves between now and January 1. We all know that is not going to happen since we just lost 100 since April. Looks like they are going to have to park more 200s then planed at the current rate we will be below 2000 pilots by January

 

[higney85]

We are now properly staffed for our flying as of January 1 2014
With 116 200s and 53 900s we will have 6.8 crews per plane if no one else leaves between now and January 1. We all know that is not going to happen since we just lost 100 since April. Looks like they are going to have to park more 200s then planed at the current rate we will be below 2000 pilots by January

Explain that to DL network planning. They run the show. If lift is needed (like it is now), they will have to "somehow" hire. Once the new -900's and 717's show up, the -200's can park.

 

[badog]

12 spots per class is the minimum. They could interview as many as they want to get that. That's why some people think they will interview us in bulk and put us in a pool of some sorts.

There is only an expedited interview for delta not a guaranteed spot in class. That's what's so funny about the pos ta pinnicle signed.
You guys got hosed all the way around.

 

[WIPilot]

There is only an expedited interview for delta not a guaranteed spot in class. That's what's so funny about the pos ta pinnicle signed.
You guys got hosed all the way around.

Individually there is no spot per say, but when there is a delta class airline wide there are spots that must be filled by pinnacle pilots

 

[xjhawk]

Okay my point is that its just an interview is this... Delta can change the requirements for employment as they see fit as the come across the list. So the person in front of me and behind me on the seniority list can have different requirements than I for getting hired. I will also say that when Delta hires 20 a month, guess what? Only Mesaba flows and Compass flows will be in class. Those commitments need to be honored first, which leaves no spots for the SSP. Only the elite of the Pinnacle pilots will get to Delta (other than the most pampered of the former mesaba pilots that were grandfathered into the flow) will be given a chance at the SSP-by elite I mean those that will have the nepotism factor and the union guys that pushed this contract on us. No, I do not have faith in this program as being a 1,000 down on the list at 12 a class (eventually), it would be years before I see Delta. Oh and how much do I trust Delta and ALPA? Well, about as much as I trust my old flow to NWA and Delta is still worth something. I was about 200 numbers away from the flow. Thanks ALPA and DELta

 

[jynxyjericho]

Okay my point is that its just an interview is this... Delta can change the requirements for employment as they see fit as the come across the list. So the person in front of me and behind me on the seniority list can have different requirements than I for getting hired. I will also say that when Delta hires 20 a month, guess what? Only Mesaba flows and Compass flows will be in class. Those commitments need to be honored first, which leaves no spots for the SSP. Only the elite of the Pinnacle pilots will get to Delta (other than the most pampered of the former mesaba pilots that were grandfathered into the flow) will be given a chance at the SSP-by elite I mean those that will have the nepotism factor and the union guys that pushed this contract on us. No, I do not have faith in this program as being a 1,000 down on the list at 12 a class (eventually), it would be years before I see Delta. Oh and how much do I trust Delta and ALPA? Well, about as much as I trust my old flow to NWA and Delta is still worth something. I was about 200 numbers away from the flow. Thanks ALPA and DELta

Cue the jerks replying that you're "entitled" because of that post.

Anyway, I've said it before I'll say it again, I miss Northwest. (and pepsi)

 

[Flyer1015]

No, I agree with xjhawk. And I miss Northwest too!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

DAL management's wet dream would be to staff 51% of the airline with the peeknuckle sackless wonders, future concessionary contracts would be guaranteed.

 

[xjhawk]

sign me up, give me a Delta number and make me offers and I will vote the same way I did at Pinnacle-with my needs and that of providing for my family. But I will say that while at a major such as Delta, they would not be in the position to shut down and farm out the flying for the entire mainline-but they could with Comair and Pinnacle. I wish PBR was in HR, I love that idea.

 

[i fly boxes]

Delta made 850 million in the second quarter. Doesn't that make us feel awesome.
I heard a rumor that there is work going on behind the scenes to turn the ssp into a straight flow. I don't buy into it and I don't trust rumors but the only reason I am posting this rumor is because I think that if something like this were to ever happen it would actually be WORSE than what we have now for the majority. At least with the ssp people wont pass the interview or you have a small chance of being picked for the interview out of seniority order but with a straight flow if you were sitting near the 1000 mark on the list even if delta took 50% endeavor pilots in each class it would take at least 3 to 4 years to make it to you, and in that time frame 2000 pilots would be on top of you on the seniority list. Flow throughs are not a good deal unless all hiring comes from your list.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Delta made 850 million in the second quarter. Doesn't that make us feel awesome.
I heard a rumor that there is work going on behind the scenes to turn the ssp into a straight flow. I don't buy into it and I don't trust rumors but the only reason I am posting this rumor is because I think that if something like this were to ever happen it would actually be WORSE than what we have now for the majority. At least with the ssp people wont pass the interview or you have a small chance of being picked for the interview out of seniority order but with a straight flow if you were sitting near the 1000 mark on the list even if delta took 50% endeavor pilots in each class it would take at least 3 to 4 years to make it to you, and in that time frame 2000 pilots would be on top of you on the seniority list. Flow throughs are not a good deal unless all hiring comes from your list.

Every time I hear this rumor in the crew room it is some ex-Colgan or ex-Pinnacle guy tripping over his own rumor because it makes no sense. They have no idea what a flow through is. It seems like all the junior pilots at the company just realized that they might not get picked up ahead of the captains they hate in the SSP even though they are such spikey haired wunderpilots.

The closest I've been able to tell to some sort of fact based rumor is that the union is trying to increase the number of SSP pilots through after the Mesaba flows in exchange for hiring bonuses to make us competitive.

By the way, a flow through is a great deal for the pilot group. Yes it may not help YOU, and YOU may be able to get a number at American before the flow hits YOU, but it's a good deal for the pilot group as a whole(not for the ME ME ME ME crowd).

 

[1.3XVso]

Delta made 850 million in the second quarter. Doesn't that make us feel awesome.
I heard a rumor that there is work going on behind the scenes to turn the ssp into a straight flow. I don't buy into it and I don't trust rumors but the only reason I am posting this rumor is because I think that if something like this were to ever happen it would actually be WORSE than what we have now for the majority. At least with the ssp people wont pass the interview or you have a small chance of being picked for the interview out of seniority order but with a straight flow if you were sitting near the 1000 mark on the list even if delta took 50% endeavor pilots in each class it would take at least 3 to 4 years to make it to you, and in that time frame 2000 pilots would be on top of you on the seniority list. Flow throughs are not a good deal unless all hiring comes from your list.

Does this mean all the prickes and ****************************** bags are going to delta? Like arrogant rose to name a few ?

 

[mesaba13]

" At least with the ssp people wont pass the interview or you have a small chance of being picked for the interview out of seniority " Did you ever think that you may not pass the interview? Maybe you have not been around the last 15 years but there are some awesome guys on our list that have been shot down by major airlines. Guys that have their Sh*t together and sharp all around. So you think if you get the opportunity to interview ahead of them you are a shoe in? Good luck with that.

 

[i fly boxes]

" At least with the ssp people wont pass the interview or you have a small chance of being picked for the interview out of seniority " Did you ever think that you may not pass the interview? Maybe you have not been around the last 15 years but there are some awesome guys on our list that have been shot down by major airlines. Guys that have their Sh*t together and sharp all around. So you think if you get the opportunity to interview ahead of them you are a shoe in? Good luck with that.

No I but I know that I will be prepared for the interview and if I pass I will have earned it. Where some dueschbags at all three of our airlines will not prepare and they will not get the job.

 

[jynxyjericho]

No I but I know that I will be prepared for the interview and if I pass I will have earned it. Where some dueschbags at all three of our airlines will not prepare and they will not get the job.

I'm just curious, what is your estimation of the percentage of db's at this company? There's no right or wrong answer but recently it seems like employees have gone from "95% of our pilots are great" to "Everyone senior to me is an idiot".

 

[altimaklr]

Zzzzzzzzz

 

[Flyer1015]

Hold on, I gotta replenish my popcorn!

 

[i fly boxes]

I'm just curious, what is your estimation of the percentage of db's at this company? There's no right or wrong answer but recently it seems like employees have gone from "95% of our pilots are great" to "Everyone senior to me is an idiot".

I would say about 5%. It's probably the same at every airline

 

[i fly boxes]

Let me put it this way, I'm good with a flow that is attached with seniority rights. Because as we know at any time they can be cancelled. Look at what happened to Mesaba it was bs. If we all got numbers and then flowed I would be fine becuase you wouldn't lose seniority while you waited.

 

[xjhawk]

I like that idea. I think they are realizing they cannot park the 200's as fast as they wanted as they do not want to lose that market. I would also assume that they were not figuring that so many pilots would have left so soon and fast from Endeavor.

I think somewhere in their warped minds at Delta they thought they could rape our contract and offer a joke of a career program in the guise of a guaranteed interview while forecasting hiring and class sizes to eliminate that program costing them nothing-not even a broken promise. I think they will start stepping up our benefits to try and get people to stay to keep the operation just good enough to make huge money and not let it fall apart because of staffing issues.

First they offered the guaranteed interview, then it will be the performance based bonus checks which will be a joke, then a profit sharing that will be nothing like the Delta one as Delta can funnel as much money from Endeavor as they want and call it "management expenses (see Mesaba airlines and MAIR Holdings example), then they will offer 30 more CRJ 900's so that the FO's will all see an upgrade and stay and thus they will be able to squeeze enough time out of the 200 in order to get the 900's and 717's on line. I also suspect that the first offer for the 30 more CRJ 900's will have "new hire" only bonus's attached to them.

Little does Delta know that there are hundreds (1500 or more even?) at Endeavor who will not wait for Delta and a promise of an interview in 5+ years when the standards can change the moment an Endeavor pilots walks in the door (predicated on how well Endeavor is staffed at the time too i might add).

 

[i fly boxes]

I like that idea. I think they are realizing they cannot park the 200's as fast as they wanted as they do not want to lose that market. I would also assume that they were not figuring that so many pilots would have left so soon and fast from Endeavor.

I think somewhere in their warped minds at Delta they thought they could rape our contract and offer a joke of a career program in the guise of a guaranteed interview while forecasting hiring and class sizes to eliminate that program costing them nothing-not even a broken promise. I think they will start stepping up our benefits to try and get people to stay to keep the operation just good enough to make huge money and not let it fall apart because of staffing issues.

First they offered the guaranteed interview, then it will be the performance based bonus checks which will be a joke, then a profit sharing that will be nothing like the Delta one as Delta can funnel as much money from Endeavor as they want and call it "management expenses (see Mesaba airlines and MAIR Holdings example), then they will offer 30 more CRJ 900's so that the FO's will all see an upgrade and stay and thus they will be able to squeeze enough time out of the 200 in order to get the 900's and 717's on line. I also suspect that the first offer for the 30 more CRJ 900's will have "new hire" only bonus's attached to them.

Little does Delta know that there are hundreds (1500 or more even?) at Endeavor who will not wait for Delta and a promise of an interview in 5+ years when the standards can change the moment an Endeavor pilots walks in the door (predicated on how well Endeavor is staffed at the time too i might add).

I would be willing to bet that you are right approximately 1200-1600 pilots would take the first opportunity at American or united even living in delta bases. Also fos will continue to go to legacies and mid majors.

 

[big shacks]

1.5 pilots a day I'm told from Eagan. At this rate, things should get real interesting by the holidays.

 

[Monster Buck]

I like that idea. I think they are realizing they cannot park the 200's as fast as they wanted as they do not want to lose that market. I would also assume that they were not figuring that so many pilots would have left so soon and fast from Endeavor.

I think somewhere in their warped minds at Delta they thought they could rape our contract and offer a joke of a career program in the guise of a guaranteed interview while forecasting hiring and class sizes to eliminate that program costing them nothing-not even a broken promise. I think they will start stepping up our benefits to try and get people to stay to keep the operation just good enough to make huge money and not let it fall apart because of staffing issues.

First they offered the guaranteed interview, then it will be the performance based bonus checks which will be a joke, then a profit sharing that will be nothing like the Delta one as Delta can funnel as much money from Endeavor as they want and call it "management expenses (see Mesaba airlines and MAIR Holdings example), then they will offer 30 more CRJ 900's so that the FO's will all see an upgrade and stay and thus they will be able to squeeze enough time out of the 200 in order to get the 900's and 717's on line. I also suspect that the first offer for the 30 more CRJ 900's will have "new hire" only bonus's attached to them.

Little does Delta know that there are hundreds (1500 or more even?) at Endeavor who will not wait for Delta and a promise of an interview in 5+ years when the standards can change the moment an Endeavor pilots walks in the door (predicated on how well Endeavor is staffed at the time too i might add).

Delta couldn't care less and that's the problem for pilots. The only thing they cared about was a rock bottom contract and what it does to the rest of the regionals. You really think they care how many leave, how it effects pinnacle ops? They watched dozens per month flocking away from comair(they owned) for years and then in the end sent hundreds packing all at once. They don't care at all about pinnacles performance or how many leave. They may act publicly like they do but its just a show.

There was a decade that it looked like the regionals could work as a career, its on its way back to in and out as fast as possible and pray it works. I can't stand flyer but he is right about take anything you can get that is outside someone elses umbrella. I remember thinking about the guys around me leaving for airtran and thinking man that company isn't very good, why leave for there. Well I was wrong. Those guys are now at SWA with many years of service under their belts making a shat load.